I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

[Dick Whitman]

they didn't let racism get in their way.

By and large white people didn't let racism get in the immigrants' way either. At least not nearly to the degree they did with African-Americans. That's a part of it you're not getting.

Starting from zero is a lot better than starting from negative 1,000.

OK, so let's stipulate that many poor/uneducated African-Americans start at, as you put it, negative 1,000. For example, think of that heartbreaking story of that little girl ... Dasani? ... in the New York Times awhile back. Is it your contention that white racism is why she's very likely to stay at negative 1,000?

The reason that she's very likely to stay at negative 1,000 isn't necessarily white racism, and what does it have to do with the price of tea in China if it were? But the reason that she's likely to stay at 1,000 is definitely that, for whatever reason, the black population in the United States is at this point ill-equipped to spontaneously lift itself from its current state.

This is not something I love to talk about at cocktail parties among fellow lefties, but I'm definitely not sold on a minimum wage hike as a solution. The GOP might be right. It might be a drag on development in those neighborhoods. Nations like Bangladesh, to name one, and China to name another, have been able to advance partly because they had cheap labor to sell.

It would be politically unpalatable, of course, but maybe businesses that open in inner-cities or impoverished rural areas should be able to pay less than minimum wage. I suppose tax breaks get the same result. But it'd be nice to accomplish it without subsidizing it.

 

[doctorquant]

Is a truck and a lawnmower beyond the reach of a few hard working kids from Ferguson?

Given what I've read about the court system of Ferguson, Mo., it might just be.

You don't get $321 in fines and fees and 3 warrants per household from an about-average crime rate. You get numbers like this from bullshirt arrests for jaywalking and constant "low level harassment involving traffic stops, court appearances, high fines, and the threat of jail for failure to pay."
If you have money, for example, you can easily get a speeding ticket converted to a non-moving violation. But if you don't have money it's often the start of a downward spiral that is hard to pull out of:

For a simple speeding ticket, an attorney is paid $50-$100, the municipality is paid $150-$200 in fines and court costs, and the defendant avoids points on his or her license as well as a possible increase in insurance costs. For simple cases, neither the attorney nor the defendant must appear in court.
However, if you do not have the ability to hire an attorney or pay fines, you do not get the benefit of the amendment, you are assessed points, your license risks suspension and you still owe the municipality money you cannot afford….If you cannot pay the amount in full, you must appear in court on that night to explain why. If you miss court, a warrant will likely be issued for your arrest.
People who are arrested on a warrant for failure to appear in court to pay the fines frequently sit in jail for an extended period. None of the municipalities has court on a daily basis and some courts meet only once per month. If you are arrested on a warrant in one of these jurisdictions and are unable to pay the bond, you may spend as much as three weeks in jail waiting to see a judge.

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/08/ferguson-and-the-debtors-prison.html

 

[MisterCreosote]

They patronized businesses owned by members of their community, keeping the money in their community.

You do realize that there is not money in these communities to begin with, right? They are impoverished. They aren't going to become less impoverished by passing money around to one another.

Then how did folks get rich serving them?

Ollie, the guy who was murdered in his Cabrini-Green convenience store got rich off of his two stores.

Now, he worked his ass off, but he got rich.

Just the SNAP money alone is a lot.

There are businesses in these communities. They are just largely owned by folks who don't live there.

Do you think the store where Big Mike stole the rellos from doesn't make money? If it doesn't, why does it exist?

Since people have money to buy loosies, they have enough to start businesses.

 

[Dick Whitman]

They patronized businesses owned by members of their community, keeping the money in their community.

You do realize that there is not money in these communities to begin with, right? They are impoverished. They aren't going to become less impoverished by passing money around to one another.

Then how did folks get rich serving them?

Ollie, the guy who was murdered in his Cabrini-Green convenience store got rich off of his two stores.

Now, he worked his ass off, but he got rich.

Just the SNAP money alone is a lot.

There are businesses in these communities. They are just largely owned by folks who don't live there.

Do you think the store where Big Mike stole the rellos from doesn't make money? If it doesn't, why does it exist?

Dude, you are championing isolationism.

 

[YankeeFan]

I think some people are missing a larger point about the Dunkin' Donuts article I linked to: That the economic model currently set up does more to favor a chain of franchises than it does an individual who might want to open a local business.

I'm shocked!

You're telling me that the folks who have built a successful business have built a model that benefits them?

Next, you're going to tell me that developers and landlords would rather rent to established, national/regional businesses, with a track record of results, and deep pockets.

 

[YankeeFan]

If you had a poverty-stricken neighborhood of, say, 100 adults, how much money do you think would they'd have if they "pooled their capital and resources?"

iPod. Beats by Dr. Dre. Sony PlayStation.

Sneakers, tattoos, jewelry, and satellite dishes.

If you buy all those things -- on credit -- it will probably take more than 100.

Isn't that the point? Is that a policy failure?

 

[Dick Whitman]

If you had a poverty-stricken neighborhood of, say, 100 adults, how much money do you think would they'd have if they "pooled their capital and resources?"

iPod. Beats by Dr. Dre. Sony PlayStation.

Sneakers, tattoos, jewelry, and satellite dishes.

If you buy all those things -- on credit -- it will probably take more than 100.

Isn't that the point? Is that a policy failure?

Yes.

 

[YankeeFan]

they didn't let racism get in their way.

By and large white people didn't let racism get in the immigrants' way either. At least not nearly to the degree they did with African-Americans. That's a part of it you're not getting.

Starting from zero is a lot better than starting from negative 1,000.

The immigrants went outside the "system". That's why whites didn't/couldn't get in their way.

That's the point.

 

[MisterCreosote]

They patronized businesses owned by members of their community, keeping the money in their community.

You do realize that there is not money in these communities to begin with, right? They are impoverished. They aren't going to become less impoverished by passing money around to one another.

Then how did folks get rich serving them?

Ollie, the guy who was murdered in his Cabrini-Green convenience store got rich off of his two stores.

Now, he worked his ass off, but he got rich.

Just the SNAP money alone is a lot.

There are businesses in these communities. They are just largely owned by folks who don't live there.

Do you think the store where Big Mike stole the rellos from doesn't make money? If it doesn't, why does it exist?

Dude, you are championing isolationism.

Also, you know you can't just use SNAP money for any old thing you want, right?

 

[YankeeFan]

Imagine the money from these businesses stayed in the community, since the owners and employees were members of it.

What money?

deck, seriously this is absurd.

You have to at least acknowledge that there is money to be made in these communities.

 

[YankeeFan]

So what's your plan for getting the blacks to stop buying tattoos, iPods, and gold teeth...

Shouldn't this at least be a part of the plan?

Is it now?

Are Rev. Al, or any of the other civil rights leaders talking about this? Shouldn't they be?

 

[doctorquant]

They patronized businesses owned by members of their community, keeping the money in their community.

You do realize that there is not money in these communities to begin with, right? They are impoverished. They aren't going to become less impoverished by passing money around to one another.

Then how did folks get rich serving them?

Ollie, the guy who was murdered in his Cabrini-Green convenience store got rich off of his two stores.

Now, he worked his ass off, but he got rich.

Just the SNAP money alone is a lot.

There are businesses in these communities. They are just largely owned by folks who don't live there.

Do you think the store where Big Mike stole the rellos from doesn't make money? If it doesn't, why does it exist?

Dude, you are championing isolationism.

Also, you know you can't just use SNAP money for any old thing you want, right?

I think the point is that selling to customers who pay with SNAP can be profitable. Which, of course, is unspeakably evil.