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I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

MisterCreosote said:
Can we also assume that at least some people in poverty have higher aspirations than hauling junk or making doughnuts...

Good God, yes!

Let's make sure they know there are opportunities, and available paths to achieve them.

But, let's not put down junk hauling or doughnuts either. There's no shame in it. You can make money in it. And, it's a higher aspiration than not working at all, isn't it? And, not working at all is a big part of the problem.
 
poindexter said:
LongTimeListener said:
poindexter said:
LongTimeListener said:
--College acceptance has been set up almost entirely to favor white people, with its near-singular focus on standardized tests and the rise of prep programs that cost thousands of dollars.

How old are your kids, LTL? My kids have graduated high school the last two years, and I have gone through every high school seminar on going to college. I don't agree with that statement for a second.

Well, you're wrong, and there is all sorts of data and writing about it. Check out the articles on the changes in the SAT, one of the big reasons they're doing that is the gaming of the system by the testing companies and the spectacular results they achieve with said gaming of the system.


No, I'm not wrong. You are talking about the high end universities. If you are any kind of student, you can achieve a test score and grades good enough (without having to take tutoring for SATs) to get into a San Jose State University, or Fresno State or Long Beach State. There is a ton of money available for low income/minority students. Go to the high school sponsored seminars.

I've been to them. I guess I'm thinking on a higher level than the basically guaranteed-admission schools that ask for a 2.99 GPA and a 510 on the SAT.

Employers think on a higher level than that too.
 
LongTimeListener said:
I've been to them. I guess I'm thinking on a higher level than the basically guaranteed-admission schools that ask for a 2.99 GPA and a 510 on the SAT.

Employers think on a higher level than that too.

Yeah, if you want to work for deck's law firm, or Goldman Sachs.

We laugh at the idea that someone might "pull themselves up from their bootstraps", but then we also complain if a poor African-Americans can't go from poverty in Ferguson, to Harvard, to the board room in a matter of a few years.

What concerns me is the cycle of generational poverty.

I don't think multiple generations of the same family should require subsidized housing and food. These subsidies should help people get their feet under them, provide for their kids, and give them a better life.

Instead, we see the cycle continue.

When they tore down the Cabrini-Green high rises, we heard how sad it was for people who had been born there, lived their whole lives there, and now had kids and grandkids living there.

That's a policy failure.

deck tells me that a poor African-American child born today has no chance. He tells me that child's future child has no chance.

At what point down the line do they have a chance?

Why can't we make incremental gains?

Why can't we go from poorly educated, to high school educated, to college educated over a couple of generations?

Why can't we expect to go from unemployment, to employed, to well employed, to business owner over several generations?
 
poindexter said:
LongTimeListener said:
poindexter said:
LongTimeListener said:
--College acceptance has been set up almost entirely to favor white people, with its near-singular focus on standardized tests and the rise of prep programs that cost thousands of dollars.

How old are your kids, LTL? My kids have graduated high school the last two years, and I have gone through every high school seminar on going to college. I don't agree with that statement for a second.

Well, you're wrong, and there is all sorts of data and writing about it. Check out the articles on the changes in the SAT, one of the big reasons they're doing that is the gaming of the system by the testing companies and the spectacular results they achieve with said gaming of the system.


No, I'm not wrong. You are talking about the high end universities. If you are any kind of student, you can achieve a test score and grades good enough (without having to take tutoring for SATs) to get into a San Jose State University, or Fresno State or Long Beach State.

Then why aren't they?
 
YankeeFan said:
LongTimeListener said:
I've been to them. I guess I'm thinking on a higher level than the basically guaranteed-admission schools that ask for a 2.99 GPA and a 510 on the SAT.

Employers think on a higher level than that too.

Yeah, if you want to work for deck's law firm, or Goldman Sachs.

We laugh at the idea that someone might "pull themselves up from their bootstraps", but then we also complain if a poor African-Americans can't go from poverty in Ferguson, to Harvard, to the board room in a matter of a few years.

What concerns me is the cycle of generational poverty.

I don't think multiple generations of the same family should require subsidized housing and food. These subsidies should help people get their feet under them, provide for their kids, and give them a better life.

Instead, we see the cycle continue.

When they tore down the Cabrini-Green high rises, we heard how sad it was for people who had been born there, lived their whole lives there, and now had kids and grandkids living there.

That's a policy failure.

deck tells me that a poor African-American child born today has no chance. He tells me that child's future child has no chance.

At what point down the line do they have a chance?

Why can't we make incremental gains?

Why can't we go from poorly educated, to high school educated, to college educated over a couple of generations?

Why can't we expect to go from unemployment, to employed, to well employed, to business owner over several generations?

You tell me.

Why haven't we?
 
LongTimeListener said:
poindexter said:
LongTimeListener said:
poindexter said:
LongTimeListener said:
--College acceptance has been set up almost entirely to favor white people, with its near-singular focus on standardized tests and the rise of prep programs that cost thousands of dollars.

How old are your kids, LTL? My kids have graduated high school the last two years, and I have gone through every high school seminar on going to college. I don't agree with that statement for a second.

Well, you're wrong, and there is all sorts of data and writing about it. Check out the articles on the changes in the SAT, one of the big reasons they're doing that is the gaming of the system by the testing companies and the spectacular results they achieve with said gaming of the system.


No, I'm not wrong. You are talking about the high end universities. If you are any kind of student, you can achieve a test score and grades good enough (without having to take tutoring for SATs) to get into a San Jose State University, or Fresno State or Long Beach State. There is a ton of money available for low income/minority students. Go to the high school sponsored seminars.

I've been to them. I guess I'm thinking on a higher level than the basically guaranteed-admission schools that ask for a 2.99 GPA and a 510 on the SAT.

Employers think on a higher level than that too.

Really? So for a black kid, its Ivy/Stanford or bust?

We've spent 14 pages talking about how African Americans are at the bottom of the food chain, behind practically every minority who's come over in the last 75 years, but a Fresno State degree isn't good enough?
 
YankeeFan said:
MisterCreosote said:
Can we also assume that at least some people in poverty have higher aspirations than hauling junk or making doughnuts...

Good God, yes!

Let's make sure they know there are opportunities, and available paths to achieve them.

But, let's not put down junk hauling or doughnuts either. There's no shame in it. You can make money in it. And, it's a higher aspiration than not working at all, isn't it? And, not working at all is a big part of the problem.

Sure, but let's also not forget that high or chronic unemployment is not caused by people choosing to not work.
 
poindexter said:
LongTimeListener said:
poindexter said:
LongTimeListener said:
poindexter said:
LongTimeListener said:
--College acceptance has been set up almost entirely to favor white people, with its near-singular focus on standardized tests and the rise of prep programs that cost thousands of dollars.

How old are your kids, LTL? My kids have graduated high school the last two years, and I have gone through every high school seminar on going to college. I don't agree with that statement for a second.

Well, you're wrong, and there is all sorts of data and writing about it. Check out the articles on the changes in the SAT, one of the big reasons they're doing that is the gaming of the system by the testing companies and the spectacular results they achieve with said gaming of the system.


No, I'm not wrong. You are talking about the high end universities. If you are any kind of student, you can achieve a test score and grades good enough (without having to take tutoring for SATs) to get into a San Jose State University, or Fresno State or Long Beach State. There is a ton of money available for low income/minority students. Go to the high school sponsored seminars.

I've been to them. I guess I'm thinking on a higher level than the basically guaranteed-admission schools that ask for a 2.99 GPA and a 510 on the SAT.

Employers think on a higher level than that too.

Really? So for a black kid, its Ivy/Stanford or bust?

We've spent 14 pages talking about how African Americans are at the bottom of the food chain, behind practically every minority who's come over in the last 75 years, but a Fresno State degree isn't good enough?

It's OK, but:

A) It isn't a competitive degree in today's landscape, not just against the Ivies but against any UC school or just about anything else up and down the West Coast;

and

B) kids who come there from urban schools with that kind of middling academic profile do not tend to do well, so in a lot of cases it's just burying them more in debt with no degree.
 
re: MC's post ...

Sure about that? I think it contributes heavily to the problem.

Part of a lyric in a Gang Starr song, 20 years old, has always stuck out:

They might say we're a menace to society
But at the same time I say "Why is it me?"
Am I the target, for destruction?
What about the system, and total corruption?
I can't work at no fast-food joint
I got some talent, so don't you get my point?

I'll organize some brothers and get some crazy loot
Selling D-R-U-G-S and clocking dollars, troop
Cause the phat dough, yo, that suits me fine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT4jQld_FiE


What the fork is wrong with working a shirt job during your teen years? It's part of growing up.

'Course, they touched on another problem within the poverty equation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikCQRx3BWQ0
 
Songbird said:
re: MC's post ...

Sure about that? I think it contributes heavily to the problem.

Part of a lyric in a Gang Starr song, 20 years old, has always stuck out:

They might say we're a menace to society
But at the same time I say "Why is it me?"
Am I the target, for destruction?
What about the system, and total corruption?
I can't work at no fast-food joint
I got some talent, so don't you get my point?

I'll organize some brothers and get some crazy loot
Selling D-R-U-G-S and clocking dollars, troop
Cause the phat dough, yo, that suits me fine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT4jQld_FiE


What the fork is wrong with working a shirt job during your teen years?

Gang Starr answers you in that same excerpt.

It doesn't pay as well as selling drugs. That's what the fork is wrong with it.
 
Sometimes, art imitates life.

It's the sentiment.

McDonald's!? Sheeeeet, I ain't havin' that.
 

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