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I know: It's definitely not price gouging (insult away, BTW)

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Columbo, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    Couple of interesting things.

    An article in the NYTimes today about what we've known all along: North American car companies, through greed and shortsightedness, have completed ignored the passenger car market in the past decade because of the obscene profits they made from SUV's and trucks. And now the chickens have come home to roost. SUV sales are down a whopping 12% this year.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/business/worldbusiness/28auto.html?ref=business

    Most interesting though is the fact that back in 2000, only 22% of consumers cited "fuel economy" as a major factor in their automobile purcase. Now it's over 60%

    Also, if you haven't seen this documentary, I'd recommend it. "The End of Suburbia" is a look at the impact rising gas prices and oil depletion will have on the North American economy.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/business/worldbusiness/28auto.html?ref=business

    There's a trailer at Youtube:

     
  2. Ragu,

    I'm not in favor of constant govt. involvement in the economy. Hell stay out of it in almost all cases. But I don't think most people would have a problem with the govt. intervening in dire situations - the Depression, for instance, resulting in FDR's New Deal - or by picking its spots, like this case.

    As the economic numbers are starting to indicate, high gas prices have the potential to have a serious negative influence on the economy. So if the govt. can smartly figure out a way to intervene, who's hurt? The oil companies make a little less money? Sniff, sniff. Does this solve the long-term problem? Of course not. In the long-term this should force the consumer to save for hybrids, thus driving the cost of hybrids down, and encourage companies to fast-track looking for alternative fuel sources.

    But again, in the short term, who is hurt if the government nit-picks somehow to provide some relief, and possibly averts a recession?

    Now this will just be a philosophical difference between us, but that's fair enough.
     
  3. Satchel Pooch

    Satchel Pooch Member

    I hope 60 years from now we can all sit around the SJ campfire and have a good, old fashioned bitch about the corn and sugar cane industries.
     
  4. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    Gas was 93 cents a gallon as recently as 1986.

    It was $1.25 a gallon as recently as 1999.

    "Something new" cannot compete with those prices. Ever. And if it cannot compete, it won't be developed. At least not with any sense of urgency.

    I have a high-definition TV. I have a high-definition satellite receiver. I subscribe to my provider's high-definition package.

    I get . . . 9 high-definition channels. Local channels became available in my area a month ago. A dish upgrade will give me about 15 HD channels.

    The government may have mandated it, but they have pushed back the deadline so many times that it doesn't seem like much of a mandate.

    Right now we're about as close to being energy independent as I am to receiving more than half my channels in HD.
     
  5. alleyallen

    alleyallen Guest

    I'll spell it out. I CANNOT AFFORD A CAR PAYMENT!
     
  6. Satchel Pooch

    Satchel Pooch Member

    No problem, just get a more fuel-efficient car.
     
  7. alleyallen

    alleyallen Guest

    My circumstances are eerily similar to Oz. Same miles, same vehicle and year, same mileage.
     
  8. alleyallen

    alleyallen Guest

    Read the earlier posts newbie. I have a fuel-efficient car. It's the gas prices which are too high.
     
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    RWH, I can't answer "who does it hurt if the government provides relief in the short term," without knowing what that "relief" is. But whatever it is, there will be a price to pay. You can not avoid two truths: Worldwide demand for oil is skyrocketing. The supply of oil can not keep up with the demand. The market is dictating the price of gas. If our government somehow starts providing gas that is artificially priced too low, someone is going to have to pay for the price difference. There is no way around that.

    So if by relief you mean government-imposed price controls, the result will be gas shortages. The severity will depend on just how much the government fucks with the market. We'll have cheap gas, and not enough available. If they don't do that, but instead start buying oil at its market price and selling it at an artificially low price, yeah, it might stave off recession temporarily, but it will bring on more government debt. Just don't bitch about the tax increases somewhere down the line. And the way the current administration has been spending, more government debt is going to mean an even worse recession when it finally does hit.

    There's no free lunch here.
     
  10. Satchel Pooch

    Satchel Pooch Member

    Yeah, buddy, it was a joke because everyone's trying to harang you. I like your posts, AA.
     
  11. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    This is a little dicey.

    Beware the law of unintented consequences.

    In the 1980s we decided to help a group of freedom fighters go against the Russians in Afghanistan. Among those we helped . . . Osama bin Laden.

    Around the same time we decided to help Iran's neighbor go against the evil country that held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days. The Iraqi leader we helped and sold weapons of mass destruction to . . . Saddam Huessin.

    Short-term fixes can screw you in the long term if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

    (insert Dirty Harry voice here)

    "So the question you have to ask yourself is this: Do I trust my government to know what it's doing.

    Well, do ya . . . punk?"
     
  12. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    I'm talking five months. You're talking six years. Really, really big difference.
     
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