If Jordan was the best player of the last 30 years, who was/is the second best?

[Cubbiebum]

All-Star Jo Jo White (granted he was past his prime), two-time All-Star Billy Knight and the aforementioned five-time All-Star Bob McAdoo for 20 games.

Like I said before, Bird gets the lion's share of the credit for the turnaround but coaching also played a big part because the Celtics did have some talent.

WHY are you arguing how good McAdoo, Knight and White were to support an argument about how much talent Bird had on the 80 Celts? Umm, McAdoo, Knight and White were NOT ON THAT TEAM. They left the summer before Bird arrived. You're making points that only undermine your own argument. Yep, McAdoo had big time talent and was the Celtics leading scorer in 79, which only makes it that much more impressive that Bird carried the Celts to a 32 game improvement on a team that had just LOST its leading scorer and biggest talent from the season before. Yeesh, I mean, you do realize you're arguing against yourself, right?

And it should be pointed out that Cowens retired at the end of that season, yes he was still pretty good, but by no means was he anything close to the same star he'd been in the mid-70s.

Archibald and Maxwell were really the only other genuine quality talents on that team, but even Archibald was past his prime by then. That most certainly was not a deep team. Its problem was precisely the opposite, in fact.

Someone said the year before was a team with no talent. I was pointing out they indeed had pretty good talent and should have won more than they did. They had crappy coaching. Bird and a new coach came the next year.

The whole point in all this was to show Bird didn't do it alone. He was by far the biggest reason for the turnaround but it wasn't just him. It started when people discounted David Robinson's rookie season because he didn't do it alone. All I've been trying to do is prove that David Robinson's rookie season is at the least in the conversation with Bird and Magic's. No one has been willing to admit that.

 

[Stoney]

The whole point in all this was to show Bird didn't do it alone.

If that's your "whole point", then why the fork are you talking about how good McAdoo, Knight and White supposedly were? They never played with Bird and thus have nothing whatsoever to do with your whole point.

Well, actually, that's not quite true. If they were the players you say, then it is relevant in the sense that it clearly works AGAINST your "whole point" since Boston LOSING all those talented guys right before Bird got there would only emphasize what a shallow hand Bird was dealt his rookie year. And it only makes that 32 game turnaround look all the more incredibly impressive.

You might need to brush up on your logic skills. See, the way this rationale argument thing works is, whatever your "whole point" is, you should introduce evidence that tends to support it, not disprove it.

And, btw, I don't believe anybody ever denied that DR is "in the conversation" on this rookie issue. heck, I'll gladly admit it. He is indeed in the conversation, ust a wee bit behind Magic and Bird, alongside Jordan and Shaq. There, you happy? Can we put this baby to rest now?

 

[secretariat]

How did this tangent even start? It has nothing to do with the thread's central question.

 

[Stoney]

I don't even remember. But, I agree, this "rookie year" jack needs to be put to rest. I'm hopefully done with it (unless one of you bricks REALLY provokes me, damnit!).

 

[zagoshe]

I'll say this - if I got an expansion team awarded to me and was told you can grab one player from the NBA to build around I'd have a hard time not picking Kevin Durant, even though LeBron James is still extremely young and just getting into his prime and has a lot of good years left.

 

[printdust]

Here's shoving 48 points up your asses.

Dirk Nowitzki