Jimmy Carter and Hamas

[D-Backs Hack]

Truthfully, Ragu, the morale of the country right now is lower than it ever was under Carter.

"Truthfully" has a new definition, evidently.

Bush's approval rating is lower than Carter's worst figure.

81 percent of Americans, a record, say the nation is on the wrong track.

Oh, and we're losing two wars.

Sounds like the definition is on the mark to me.

 

[BTExpress]

I may have misspoke, but that speech still remains one of the most depressing and uninspiring ever made by a president.

Possibly. But at least it had some resemblance to the truth.

"Freedom is on the march . . . stay the course . . . when they stand up, we'll stand down . . . we're turning the corner . . . fight 'em over there so we don't have to fight 'em over here."

Carter told the truth. He honestly tried to do the best thing for the country, not just a few of his buddies.

He will always have that over the current Idiot-In-Chief.

 

[zeke12]

To be specific, Joe, this is what was in the article:

"We agree to a (Palestinian) state on pre-67 borders, with Jerusalem as its capital with genuine sovereignty without settlements but without recognizing Israel," Mashaal told reporters."

That's pre-67, with control of Jerusalem.

That is never, ever going to happen.

 

[writing irish]

Coming in late to this one, but I'd like to add that despite the fact that much of the malaise of the Carter era had its origins in political and economic events, a great deal of the late-70s malaise was cultural. It was an era of hedonism, shallowness and cultural mediocrity. The cultural phenomena that followed, both from the right and the left, drew their strengths from a sound rejection of the late-70s ethos.

 

[D-Backs Hack]

To be specific, Joe, this is what was in the article:

"We agree to a (Palestinian) state on pre-67 borders, with Jerusalem as its capital with genuine sovereignty without settlements but without recognizing Israel," Mashaal told reporters."

That's pre-67, with control of Jerusalem.

That is never, ever going to happen.

I deleted that part of my post because I just noticed it was ground covered earlier in the thread.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

From the NYT just now:

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world/news-palestinians-israel-carter.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Thanks JMac. I read a number of characterizations of the meeting, this morning, some more positive than this one. Not that I really needed an article like this to tell me what Hamas is about: their rhetoric and actions have been consistently hostile and they have shown no willingness o change, so I could have prewritten that article and only had to change a few word. But this was depressing to read:

In a speech, Carter said he heard from Hamas leaders they would "accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders if approved by Palestinians." He was referring to the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and a referendum on a deal Washington hopes to clinch this year.

"It means that Hamas will not undermine (Palestinian President Mahmoud) Abbas's efforts to negotiate an agreement and Hamas will accept an agreement if the Palestinians support it in a free vote," he said.

But Carter said Meshaal, whom he met on Friday and Saturday and telephoned on Monday over U.S. and Israeli objections, turned down his appeal for a unilateral ceasefire with Israel to end violence threatening peace efforts.

"I did the best I could on that," Carter said of his failure to persuade Hamas to halt rocket fire from the Gaza Strip.

The Nobel peace prize laureate stopped short of saying he obtained a clear commitment from Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist, one of the conditions set by Western powers to deal with the group.

It's a fanatic Islamofascist organization

That's all you really have to hear to dismiss the rest of this word salad. A meaningless piece of rightist propaganda babble that has no historical, political, or cultural definition. It's tailormade for someone who knows nothing about Islam or Fascism.
Still waiting to hear what I got wrong about the hostages, by the way.

 

[cranberry]

Coming in late to this one, but I'd like to add that despite the fact that much of the malaise of the Carter era had its origins in political and economic events, a great deal of the late-70s malaise was cultural. It was an era of hedonism, shallowness and cultural mediocrity. The cultural phenomena that followed, both from the right and the left, drew their strengths from a sound rejection of the late-70s ethos.

It sure was a lot of fun while it lasted, though!

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

We cultural mediocrities resemble that remark!

 

[writing irish]

I was too young to get in on the hedonism. Or at least, too young to have been a likely candidate for getting in on the hedonism. If I had made the cut during that last round of auditions for The Bad News Bears, I might have sniffed coke from Tatum O'Neal's nubile pubis, or at least shared a joint with her. Sadly, I failed. Oh well, that other kid did a much better job at playing Tanner than I would have, so the casting directors made the right call.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

I was too young to get in on the hedonism. Or at least, too young to have been a likely candidate for getting in on the hedonism. If I had made the cut during that last round of auditions for The Bad News Bears, I might have sniffed coke from Tatum O'Neal's nubile pubis, or at least shared a joint with her. Sadly, I failed. Oh well, that other kid did a much better job at playing Tanner than I would have, so the casting directors made the right call.

I believe I know why you exiled yourself to the deserts of west Texas now.

 

[writing irish]

I never quite got over the Fail, it's true. I was thisclose to having the Tanner role.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Truthfully, Ragu, the morale of the country right now is lower than it ever was under Carter.

Spnited, don't doubt that is your reality. My sense is it isn't the reality of most people who lived through both times. I don't see unemployment rates anywhere near that high (although they may be coming), inflation spiraling so far out of control that people's paychecks were declining in value almost on a weekly basis, a sense that we will not stand up for ourselves if someone takes American citizens hostage, 11 to 16 percent mortgage interest rates that make home ownership an impossibility, American cities that have become urban blight zones (in fact, we have seen the opposite) in which riots are breaking out, an energy crisis, exacerbated by bad policy--price controls that created gas shortages that had cars snaked around blocks hoping to get a driblet of fuel before the pumps ran clean, consumer confidence numbers (which are actually flagging right now) that are anywhere near as low as they were in the late 1970s, stagflation (although I am placing a huge bet we are already seeing it and it will show itself to be a fact within the next year) and any presidential speeches that will go down in posterity as "Bush's Malaise Speech." Bush has been a horrible president. For a variety of reasons, many circumstantial, we have prospered as a country a great deal more than we did under Carter's presidency, which is remembered by many people as a low point for the country in the last half century. I'll disagree with you on that one.