Jonathan Martin and the Miami Dolphins

[Stoney]

Yeah, if you so. I certainly haven't heard anything like that.

BTW, I just want all of you people that think it's OK for Incognito to shirt in Martin's mouth to know that you're wrong!

 

[Starman]

For all of the people saying that Martin was a well paid NFLer who should have no problem paying $30k; you do realize his salary was a bit over $500k (nice); but Incognito's salary was 800% more ($4M)?

I like how Steve Young on Mon. said that the "hazing/toughening up" does not help you win football games.

For all those who are OK with Incognito shaking down Martin for $30 grand -- if you make $50K, the equivalent would be if the asshole at your office cornered you in a dark hallway and demanded 300 bucks. Would you just laugh it off?

Your math is off.

It would be the equivalent of someone shaking down a person making $50,000 for $3,000 - not 300 bucks.

The shakedown is 6% of both person's salary.

OK, it's even worse.

The Incognito pom-pom shakers, who seem to be gaining in strength and volume in the MSSM, are acting like it's 3 bucks (or 30 cents).

It's a substantial piece of change -- and it should also be (and most certainly is) a felony.

Not to mention it's highly likely Martin wasn't the only rookie/short-timer designated to contribute not-exactly-voluntarily to the travel/party fund.

 

[poindexter]

The $30k is, IMO, just about the worst thing about this.

I'd like to see if any RICO laws were broken.
Any violation of state statutes against gambling, murder, kidnapping, extortion, arson, robbery, bribery, dealing in obscene matter, or dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in the Controlled Substances Act);

 

[Starman]

The $30k is, IMO, just about the worst thing about this.

I'd like to see if any RICO laws were broken.
Any violation of state statutes against gambling, murder, kidnapping, extortion, arson, robbery, bribery, dealing in obscene matter, or dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in the Controlled Substances Act);

Sure -- they were crossing state lines to go on the Vegas trips.

And it certainly would be interesting to take a peek into Incognito's medicine bag.

 

[Stoney]

The Incognito pom-pom shakers, who seem to be gaining in strength and volume in the MSSM, are acting like it's 3 bucks (or 30 cents).

OK, I'll ask the same question to you: who in the MSSM is making this argument? Can you cite me examples?

I've heard people criticize Martin for not standing up to Incognito, I've heard people criticize Martin for going public instead of settling it in-house, and I've heard people call him a wuss and similar names. But I have not yet heard anyone claim that the 30K was chump change that he should've just whipped out of his pocket and handed over.

So pardon me for being just a bit suspicious that this might be strawman being made up just to self-righteously rail against it.

 

[Starman]

The Incognito pom-pom shakers, who seem to be gaining in strength and volume in the MSSM, are acting like it's 3 bucks (or 30 cents).

OK, I'll ask the same question to you: who in the MSSM is making this argument? Can you cite me examples?

I've heard people criticize Martin for not standing up to Incognito, I've heard people criticize Martin for going public instead of settling it in-house, and I've heard people call him a wuss and similar names. But I have not yet heard anyone claim that the 30K was chump change that he should've just whipped out of his pocket and handed over.

So pardon me for being just a bit suspicious that this might be strawman being made up just to self-righteously rail against it.

Well, anybody who advances either of those two arguments is in effect saying he should have just handed over the money.

 

[Stoney]

The Incognito pom-pom shakers, who seem to be gaining in strength and volume in the MSSM, are acting like it's 3 bucks (or 30 cents).

OK, I'll ask the same question to you: who in the MSSM is making this argument? Can you cite me examples?

I've heard people criticize Martin for not standing up to Incognito, I've heard people criticize Martin for going public instead of settling it in-house, and I've heard people call him a wuss and similar names. But I have not yet heard anyone claim that the 30K was chump change that he should've just whipped out of his pocket and handed over.

So pardon me for being just a bit suspicious that this might be strawman being made up just to self-righteously rail against it.

Well, anybody who advances either of those two arguments is in effect saying he should have just handed over the money.

Oh, what complete and total bullshirt that response is, Starman. And you know it. Not the same thing at all.

 

[BDC99]

The $30k is, IMO, just about the worst thing about this.

I'd like to see if any RICO laws were broken.
Any violation of state statutes against gambling, murder, kidnapping, extortion, arson, robbery, bribery, dealing in obscene matter, or dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in the Controlled Substances Act);

Sure -- they were crossing state lines to go on the Vegas trips.

And it certainly would be interesting to take a peek into Incognito's medicine bag.

Incognito's story is that Martin was supposed to go on the trip and backed out at the last minute after everything was paid for, so he still had to pay his share. I find it hard to believe that his share was $30k.

 

[BDC99]

Not sure I'm buying this explanation, but ...

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/11/11/5093268/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins

Reports said Incognito forced Martin to pay $15,000 for a trip to Las Vegas that Martin did not attend. Incognito said those reports were not true and Martin gave the money willingly. Incognito said Martin missed the annual trip to Las Vegas during his rookie season and the other offensive linemen joked that Martin would be fined for missing the trip, even though they had no intention of actually making him pay the fine. Instead, Martin showed up with a check and willingly put in the money in the pot for a trip after the season.

 

[Batman]

It is picking and choosing which health risks to their employees that they give a damn about, but I think we're in reasonable agree to disagree territory here.

My larger issue is how full of shirt the league is in its concern for player health and safety.

Moreso than any other league or sport, players and coaches seem interchangeable. The NFL seems to prefer to market a brand rather than individuals.

If LeBron James or Sidney Crosby or Tiger Woods gets injured or caught in a scandal, the whole sport suffers. It seems like with the NFL, they plug in someone else and just promote him as the "new star". Same with coaches. There are no more Vince Lombardis, Tom Landrys, Don Shulas, Chuck Nolls, Bill Walshs, Joe Gibbs, etc. More than half the current group of coaches will be gone and forgotten a decade from now and they just seem to plug in the next guy.

Don't disagree with the overall point, but there were schlubs in bygone eras, too. Off the top of your head, can you name 10 run of the mill, non-championship coaches who were in the league between 1965 and 1970?Between 1975 and 1980? Unless you're Steve Sabol's ghost, you probably can't.
This generation has some coaching legends and personalities. Belichick ranks up there with the greats. Cowher, Dungy, Andy Reid and Jim Harbaugh will all be remembered as much for their style and personality as their successes. Others will come along. They always do.

 

[ifilus]

 

[zagoshe]

What does LaDainian Tomlinson have to do with this?

There is only one LT and he didn't play for the Chargers.

The LT who played for the Chargers was a bench who whined and cried when the Patriots beat him in the playoffs.....