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Jones/ESPNMAG

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by beeranyone, Dec 9, 2008.

Thread Status:: Not open for further replies.

Page 17 of 28

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) Active Member

Fenian_Bastard said:

OK, because Elliotte asked, and I respect him as someone who's probably already seen the Canadiens exhibit at the Hockey HOF while I have not, I will attempt to present a substantive reply to one of CL's critiques -- namely, his problem with Part III, the point of which section seems fairly obvious to me.
(I will leave aside any response to the fourth-grade snarkery attending the basic point.)
The section begins with one athlete talking about an encounter with one president, and moves from there to a general discussion of how these two men -- and athletes/celebrities/etc. -- maintain and/or rehabilitate the public personae that developed around them during the peak of their respective career. Secondarily, it seems to be a nuanced study of how we define public figures -- do we define them by the good they have done, will do, and continue to do, or by the worst mistakes/crimes/blunders/rumors of same with which they are involved. Can they come back from the latter? Should they? Is that something they can do, or something we allow them to do? As for Tyree, it seems that he doesn't want the sum total of himself to be one catch in the SB. Albeit, it's a lower level of concern than Clinton's or Armstrong's, but as a microcosmic perspective, I think it works.
Therefore, I do not believe that you can find three random people and do the same thing, and I think an argument based on that premise fails.
Click to expand...

Fenian - the "piece" (of crap) starts with something that happened in 1999.

1999.

For a supposed 2008 "Year in Review".

Let me ask you - what did Lance Armstrong do in 2008? Did he win the Tour de France? No. Why bring him up at all? Why bring Clinton up? Seriously. You are an intelligent person. WTF? Why the grouping of Armstrong, Clinton and Tyree? It's a Mad-Lib. Someone bet Jones that he could sneak in a reference to Armstrong, Clinton and Tyree and not get it into a piece. There's no other rational explanation other than the fact that it's a piece of crap.

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Dec 21, 2008

#193
Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) Active Member

beeranyone said:

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) said:

I came on this thread because of the high praise that was being heaped upon Jones' piece. I thought "hey I should check it out" but the piece was for the most part crap. I criticized the piece because it deserves criticism. Seriously - the issues I raised nobody has addressed. Please - just one person explain to me what the hell Lance Armstrong and David Tyree have to do with one another. Someone explain to me a piece called The Things We Forgot includes among others Lance Armstrong, Yankee Stadium and Michael Phelps. Who has forgotten them?

I understand that in some of your eyes Chris Jones is not just a literary God but someone on this board who you hope notices you to give you a patronizing pat on the head but come on. That piece was a mailed in piece of year in review on acid crap. Jesus - Chris Jones could literally shit on some of you and you would praise him for his performance art.

Sheep.
Click to expand...

Hi everyone. I started this thread. Because I enjoyed Jones' piece. Not because I think he is a god. Just because I thought it was cool that he did it, that I enjoyed it, and that a magazine in a down economy would devote that many pages to something that, let's face it, most don't view as essential journalism these days. but since Evil Bastard has pooped all over all our keyboards, lemme just help him out. EB: you fucking idiot. Jones says clearly in the piece that Armstrong and Tyree are two opposite sides of legacy. The section is about legacy.

Now, i feel better.
Click to expand...

Legacy?

Really?

Then why not call the piece "Legacy"? And why the name calling? Did I directly question your IQ for thinking this was a great piece? Legacy? Come on.

Armstrong's legacy had nothing to do with 2008. Nothing. It was an an egocentric indulgence for Jones to even try to link Armstrong and Tyree in a 2008 YEAR IN REVIEW piece - nothing else. It had nothing to do with "legacy".

I'm glad that now you feel better. I just hope that next time you are able to post smarter.

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Dec 21, 2008

#194
beeranyone New Member

Will someone put this frothing animal out his misery?

beeranyone, Dec 21, 2008

#195
Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) Active Member

beeranyone said:

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) said:

Fenian_Bastard said:

Boom, my brother, David Halberstam used to write for Page 2 on ESPN.com.
You write where you're asked and, when you do, you do good work.
Jonesy's piece is a fucking masterpiece of the genre, and would be wherever it appeared.
This is an argument I do not understand.
Click to expand...

David Halberstam is THE reason I bookmarked ESPN's Page 2. He said that after 9/11 his interest as sports as something worthy of his writing attention was something which in many ways demeaned his time and skills. Have the times changed to such a degree that a writer of Jones' supposed skill should be prostituting himself for ESPN the Mag goes without note? If that is the case isn't it ironic that George W Bush and Donald Rumsfeld who have been largely responsible for making such frivolous uses of a supposed great writers time for sports "year in review' possible are the very main more often than occasional targets of such "thinkers" as yourself and Jones?

I don't expect you to answer. Nor do I expect Jones to answer either. I just hope that he pays (American) taxes and that maybe the next time he mails it in that I'm not duped into reading even a part of his dreck.

You say Jones' piece is a masterpiece among "year in review" pieces? Is that faint praise or what? Honestly - someone explain what is so freaking good about this "piece".
Click to expand...

Wow. Just Wow. Dude, it's just a magazine article. And by the way, last time I checked Jones and ESPN The Mag (who you both seem to hate) have won National Magazine Awards. You don't know Jones, as far as I can tell, so calling him a sellout, from the golden throne on which you sit, is a bit much. Cool off a little. And keep the vitriol for another board.
Click to expand...

The only throne I sit on is porcelain and it resides in my Irish library.

The next time I visit that library - if I have Jones' piece in front of me - it will soon end up behind me.

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Dec 21, 2008

#196
Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) Active Member

beeranyone said:

Will someone put this frothing animal out his misery?
Click to expand...

Any time jackass.

Really - any time

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Dec 21, 2008

#197
beeranyone New Member

[last word]

beeranyone, Dec 21, 2008

#198
JC Well-Known Member

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) said:

beeranyone said:

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) said:

Fenian_Bastard said:

Boom, my brother, David Halberstam used to write for Page 2 on ESPN.com.
You write where you're asked and, when you do, you do good work.
Jonesy's piece is a fucking masterpiece of the genre, and would be wherever it appeared.
This is an argument I do not understand.
Click to expand...

David Halberstam is THE reason I bookmarked ESPN's Page 2. He said that after 9/11 his interest as sports as something worthy of his writing attention was something which in many ways demeaned his time and skills. Have the times changed to such a degree that a writer of Jones' supposed skill should be prostituting himself for ESPN the Mag goes without note? If that is the case isn't it ironic that George W Bush and Donald Rumsfeld who have been largely responsible for making such frivolous uses of a supposed great writers time for sports "year in review' possible are the very main more often than occasional targets of such "thinkers" as yourself and Jones?

I don't expect you to answer. Nor do I expect Jones to answer either. I just hope that he pays (American) taxes and that maybe the next time he mails it in that I'm not duped into reading even a part of his dreck.

You say Jones' piece is a masterpiece among "year in review" pieces? Is that faint praise or what? Honestly - someone explain what is so freaking good about this "piece".
Click to expand...

Wow. Just Wow. Dude, it's just a magazine article. And by the way, last time I checked Jones and ESPN The Mag (who you both seem to hate) have won National Magazine Awards. You don't know Jones, as far as I can tell, so calling him a sellout, from the golden throne on which you sit, is a bit much. Cool off a little. And keep the vitriol for another board.
Click to expand...

The only throne I sit on is porcelain and it resides in my Irish library.

The next time I visit that library - if I have Jones' piece in front of me - it will soon end up behind me.
Click to expand...

Holy shit was that funny. Wow, I can't stop laughing

JC, Dec 21, 2008

#199
JC Well-Known Member

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) said:

beeranyone said:

Will someone put this frothing animal out his misery?
Click to expand...

Any time jackass.

Really - any time
Click to expand...

and you're an internet tough guy. Wow you have lot's going for you

JC, Dec 21, 2008

#200
dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

Fight at Penn Station!

dooley_womack1, Dec 21, 2008

#201

YankeeFan likes this.
playthrough Moderator Staff Member

Knock it off. I don't want this locked because there is, sporadically, discussion about a story, but the bullshit needs to stop pronto. Maybe if it does then there's nothing else to be said here, I dunno. But cut the crap.

playthrough, Dec 21, 2008

#202
Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) Active Member

Hey but I'm not anonymous.

And I guess if you can't address the criticism - just attack the messenger.

Well - tomorrow I'll be at Mahoney's, The Banner, or Breens in Worcester.

Send me a PM and stop by and we can discuss our differences.

Playthough - I agree that this should be about the piece but any time someone talks about putting me out of my misery - I'll respond.

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Dec 21, 2008

#203
beeranyone New Member

Okay, now that this thread has gone beyond the Thunderdome, I'd like to point out why I started it: I read something I thought was well done and I wanted to share my excitement over it. I would hope that's why we all come here. Doesn't mean everyone is into the story I liked (E. Bastard: a simple "not into the piece" would've sufficed). I just means that, in a year in which every newspaper writer you respect is looking for a new job at the age when he should be eyeing retirement, and even big successful magazines are struggling with page counts, a writer and a publication managed to put out what i thought was an excellent long-form feature, one that must taken tremendous effort to write and balls to publish, since I imagine it wasn't the kind of story advertisers were dying to be next to. I was posting to celebrate Jones' piece. So here's to you Jones. Thank God you're not still listening.

beeranyone, Dec 21, 2008

#204

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