NBA '08 Playoff Thread

[rube]

And just so I'm not just shooting down a theory without offering my own, here's my earth-shattering explanation: it's really freaking hard to win on the road in the NBA playoffs, particularly as the rounds progress and the teams keep getting better. Utah and the Lakers haven't won on the other's floor. Same goes for San Antonio and New Orleans. Detroit was the only team to steal one on the opposition's court this round. I've said all along winning G3 on the road up 2-0 is maybe the toughest game to win. If the C's win G4 tomorrow they end it in G5 in Boston. If they lose things get dicey. But if they win would that put to bed this talk about a lack of experience?

G3 is most definitely a tough one, but G4 is probably the biggest game in any series IMO (except when it's 3-0). If Boston wins tomorrow and wraps it up in five, then yeah they've answered some questions -- and that win there would most likely help this team later on when they play Detroit/Orlando or whatever team survives the Western cluster. Winning on the road, together, in the playoffs in a big situation might bring that killer playoff attitude that I haven't seen them show yet.
It's easy to say they don't have it because none of them have really ever came close to sealing a championship deal.
The road loss really wasn't what bothered me yesterday when watching Boston, it was the fact that the team never even got off the bus. Nobody got hurt, there were no bogus calls, you knew Cleveland was going to play its best game and the C's just flat out didn't show.
THAT -- more than the road issues -- is this team's biggest problem right now.

 

[rube]

Oh, and Boobie, WHERE THE heck IS BOSTONBRED!!!

 

[rube]

Great win for the Jazz, best game of the postseason so far and probably the best series, too.
Not sure why Kobe was upset on that last drive, doesn't he know that phantom calls for no reason are reserved for D'Flop Wade?

 

[Boobie Miles]

And the Lakers lack of playoff experience finally comes back to bite them.

Rube I agree with everything you said a few posts ago. I just don't see how any of that is related to experience. I feel like that's an easy way to say something and sound like you know what you're talking about (i.e. 99% of the talking heads). These are the same people who said for 80% of the year that Rondo was a weak link or that the team had a weak bench. That's what bothers me. There are certainly some concerns with the C's right now, but I don't think there's a simple explanation. They were a good road team all year, but for whatever reason they haven't been able to get it done thus far. It's only four games though -- a small sample size -- I agree that G4 is the biggest game so if they win that a lot is answered. G3 up 2-0 is the toughest, G4 up 2-1 is the biggest. But even if they lose tomorrow, they still go back to Boston and only need to protect their home court, not that I want another G7.

 

[Boobie Miles]

The amazing thing is that Garnett is the one guy who has been showing up every night this series of the big stars, including LeBron.

 

[rube]

And the Lakers lack of playoff experience finally comes back to bite them.

Rube I agree with everything you said a few posts ago. I just don't see how any of that is related to experience. I feel like that's an easy way to say something and sound like you know what you're talking about (i.e. 99% of the talking heads). These are the same people who said for 80% of the year that Rondo was a weak link or that the team had a weak bench. That's what bothers me. There are certainly some concerns with the C's right now, but I don't think there's a simple explanation. They were a good road team all year, but for whatever reason they haven't been able to get it done thus far. It's only four games though -- a small sample size -- I agree that G4 is the biggest game so if they win that a lot is answered. G3 up 2-0 is the toughest, G4 up 2-1 is the biggest. But even if they lose tomorrow, they still go back to Boston and only need to protect their home court, not that I want another G7.

lol nice.
And I clearly don't know what I'm talking about, I am a rube after all.
While I still stand by my experience bit, I won't compare them to a younger team that literally has none. Obviously they've got guys that have been around the block a time or ten, but sometimes that all doesn't gel at the exact right time when you need it to.
Look at my Red Wings, how many years did they have various guys on the team with more rings than toes and still end up choking it off when it mattered.
Tell you what, if Boston drops the hammer in G4 I'll drop the experience jazz and admit that these guys can win a big one together when they need to.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

A lack of playoff experience often is because a player has not been clutch enough, or nails enough, to help lift his team to the next round.

The Celtics' Big Three have, what? Three conference final trips between them (one each)? In more than a decade in the league for each player, that means "lack of experience in the toughest playoff games." They struggled with Atlanta. If they win game Four against Cleveland, bully for them. They haven't "been around the block." They've gone halfway and said, 'So that's the rest of the block. Gee, I hope I can see it someday."

If they get to the later rounds and face, say, the Pistons, would you expect a win? Be honest, now.

As for the Lakers . . .they got beat today. You miss most of your free throws early, those points count too.

 

[Boobie Miles]

Yes I think they'd beat the Pistons. That's my honest opinion. I thought they'd beat the Hawks. I think they'll beat the Cavs. I won't believe otherwise until they're knocked out. No one is going 16-0 this year, so I'm not worried if a series goes 7 everyone predicted would go 5 or if a series goes 6 but there is a stinker thrown in.

I wasn't totally taking a shot at you with the not knowing what they're talking about line Rube. I was speaking in general about all of the analysts who fall back on a certain argument and never change it, even if actual occurrences should require them to do so -- like with Rondo, who, while a bit uneven at times, was more of a plus than a negative all season. And obviously from this thread I can tell you know what you're talking about. Doesn't mean you're always right, and I happen to disagree with this point. I'm not always right either, so maybe I'm wrong on this one.

Piotr I guess I'm just looking at it differently. They haven't necessarily succeeded but they've had the opportunities. That in some ways is even worse than lacking experience. If you lack experience, no one can say you've failed. But if you've been "around the block" and not made it around the rest you might have some shortcoming that you can't overcome. The history of NBA is littered with great players who haven't won jack. Some have made it to the finals multiple times others have never gotten out of the first round. Bottom line is they didn't get it done. That's what the "Big 3" is facing right now. But they've never had a team this good around them and I believe that they are good enough and tough enough to get it done.

 

[rube]

Yes I think they'd beat the Pistons. That's my honest opinion. I thought they'd beat the Hawks. I think they'll beat the Cavs. I won't believe otherwise until they're knocked out. No one is going 16-0 this year, so I'm not worried if a series goes 7 everyone predicted would go 5 or if a series goes 6 but there is a stinker thrown in.

I wasn't totally taking a shot at you with the not knowing what they're talking about line Rube. I was speaking in general about all of the analysts who fall back on a certain argument and never change it, even if actual occurrences should require them to do so -- like with Rondo, who, while a bit uneven at times, was more of a plus than a negative all season. And obviously from this thread I can tell you know what you're talking about. Doesn't mean you're always right, and I happen to disagree with this point. I'm not always right either, so maybe I'm wrong on this one.

Piotr I guess I'm just looking at it differently. They haven't necessarily succeeded but they've had the opportunities. That in some ways is even worse than lacking experience. If you lack experience, no one can say you've failed. But if you've been "around the block" and not made it around the rest you might have some shortcoming that you can't overcome. The history of NBA is littered with great players who haven't won jack. Some have made it to the finals multiple times others have never gotten out of the first round. Bottom line is they didn't get it done. That's what the "Big 3" is facing right now. But they've never had a team this good around them and I believe that they are good enough and tough enough to get it done.

Oh no harm no foul Boobie, I get what you're saying.
Obviously we're all going to be critical of Boston because they've been ordained and they're the odds on favorite heading in -- comes with the territory, you being a historical Boston fan know all about that.

On a bit of a different point, I'll be the first to admit that I've been more than impressed with Boston's supporting cast not only in the regular season but in the postseason as well.
But they go as Garnett, Pierce and Allen go -- if those three don't show up with any heart or emotion, the supporters won't either.
When it comes down to the Conference Finals and Finals, the big boys have to get it done -- an obvious point I know.

With regard to the possible Pistons-Celtics series -- well, let's just say I'd love it. But we'll save the breakdown for that if and when it actually happens.

 

[Boobie Miles]

I had no idea how good Posey was, have been pleasantly surprised with Rondo's progress and think Ainge found a diamond in the rough with Powe.

I don't think this is a one and done team. I don't expect Cassell or Brown back, but that's not a real issue because Rondo is ready to play bigger minutes and I think they like Pruitt as the back-up PG. And Big Baby will take on more of a role next year too. I think we're seeing a little slippage with Allen, but Pierce had arguably his best season and Garnett hasn't shown any signs of slowing down. It'll be interesting if they are able to land one more piece this season, though I don't think they have a first round pick (and probably don't for a few years) thanks to the trades.

All of that of course is a long way off and the next few weeks will go a long way in determining what moves need to be made.

 

[rube]

I had no idea how good Posey was, have been pleasantly surprised with Rondo's progress and think Ainge found a diamond in the rough with Powe.

I don't think this is a one and done team. I don't expect Cassell or Brown back, but that's not a real issue because Rondo is ready to play bigger minutes and I think they like Pruitt as the back-up PG. And Big Baby will take on more of a role next year too. I think we're seeing a little slippage with Allen, but Pierce had arguably his best season and Garnett hasn't shown any signs of slowing down. It'll be interesting if they are able to land one more piece this season, though I don't think they have a first round pick (and probably don't for a few years) thanks to the trades.

All of that of course is a long way off and the next few weeks will go a long way in determining what moves need to be made.

I think the window with Allen is pretty short, maybe another year or two of solid contribution ... but the other two are obviously around for a while.
That's when we'll really see what kind of GM Ainge is. Is he the Danny Ainge who was only topped by Zeke as one of the worst in the league before this summer? Or is he the Ainge of this summer, where he pulled off two great deals and was able to piece together a solid group of supporters.
Time will tell I guess.

 

[Boobie Miles]

One thing he's done pretty well is draft, particularly second round picks: Davis, Powe and Gomes in the last few years. He got into trouble with huge contracts to undeserving players and big trades that didn't pan out. It might be a good thing that he won't have the financial freedom to go crazy. This thing is pretty basic, he doesn't have a lot of room so I don't see him getting it off track. I definitely think Allen's days as a 20 ppg guy are done, but if he's surrounded by good players he'll always make an impact because you'll never be able to help off him. Look at Brent Barry, and I think Allen is a better shooter than him.