NBA Playoffs Thread

[Boom_70]

I actually think Spolestra is not a bad coach (he's done pretty well this year despite coaching guys who don't want to work very hard, cry after regular season losses, and were telling their posse members he should be fired after 20 games), but that game was not his finest hour. Even coming out of timeouts, they looked like shirt during the fourth quarter. Like they had no plan.

Putting Bosh on Dirk wasn't brilliant, but it wasn't horrible. He should be athletic enough to guard him inside and outside. Haslem, I think, would have had a tougher time guarding Dirk if they ran a screen and pop for him to shoot a 3-pointer. What was idiotic was not clobbering him as soon as he began his move to the hoop (which they should have known would be left, since he loves to go left.) It would have forced Dallas to reset, and then they'd have had even less time to get him the ball to Dirk and isolate him on the left side. I don't think you can blame LeBron too much for not coming down hard at Dirk. He should have done it, obviously, but mainly what he needed to do was foul. Swipe down hard at the ball, and if you get all arm, so what? If Dirk somehow gets the ball off to Terry and he drills a wide open 3-pointer, I think he gets ripped just as much, and people probably say "But Haslem was going to help Bosh, so LeBron needed to stay on his man!" Well, Haslem couldn't get there. It was a pretty lay-up. Dirk just made a great play. They're dumb for not recognizing his tendency to go left, but that probably sums up this team well. Guys who are such good athletes they don't really care about studying film or picking up tendencies, at least not enough so they remember it when it counts. Or remembering that you should foul when you have a foul to give.

Almost as foolish, though, was having no plan after a make. I know it's chaos when a guy makes a game-winning lay-up and you have no time outs, but the Heat still had time for a much better shot. Wade basically shot a running 30-footer with 1.5 seconds left on the clock, begging to get a bailout foul. He definitely could have taken another dribble, squared up, and launched a regular three at the buzzer. LeBron also has one of the best arms in the league. How about run a quick double screen for Wade, have LeBron fling it 60 feet, and maybe get Wade a much better shot? It just seemed like they hadn't planned at all for the possibility of a made basket.

I don't know that I buy the whole "We got motivated by the celebration LeBron and Wade did after Wade's 3-pointer." (Although I did love Wade's absurd explanation that it wasn't a celebration because there was no champagne or parade.) But I do think the Heat were lazy all fourth quarter. Instead of driving to the hoop, they wanted to hit one 3-pointer and snuff out Dallas for good, then go pop some bottles somewhere. Coming out of one of those time outs, Spolestra should have demanded LeBron just freight train his way to the basket, and you know there would have been a call, even if LeBron initiated contact. Instead they decided to dribble around and jack up 3s.

I'm not buying Dallas just yet. But they're going to be tough in their own building.

Great points . Well said !

 

[BTExpress]

(he's done pretty well this year despite coaching guys who don't want to work very hard, cry after regular season losses, and were telling their posse members he should be fired after 20 games),

Well, now I've read everything.

For all the irrational bashing this season, saying the team "doesn't want to work very hard" is just about the worst one yet.

 

[zagoshe]

Particularly since the Heat are one of the best defensive teams in the league - and u don't play great defense without effort

 

[Double Down]

So BTE, good to see you finally make an appearance. I was worried you were hugging you Peyton Manning doll on sorrow.

As for the work hard reference, I guess you get to completely ignore the whole "we just want to chill" quote that Wojo got when thet tried to run Spolstra out of town after they started 9-8.

 

[BrianGriffin]

Brian - comparing the decision to double wade and leave chalmers open and the last play is idiotic because wade didn't have the ball and wasbt driving to the hoop to win the game.

It is not a close comparison.

Situations - particularly at the end of a game - sometimes dictate that players make plays.

If you are telling me you think a 23 footer is more dangerous than a two-footer than you are clueless.

James needed to help there and force Terry to beat them

It is completely the same. The only way James could have been there in time to be of any effective help against that drive was to anticipate that Dirk was going to beat Bosh on the drive. Come any later and chances are the best he'd be able to do is foul Dirk on the continuation and probably on an and-1. And if James inexplicably commits to helping early before the drive, then Terry is sitting there unguarded -- just like Chalmers the play before -- and Dirk throws it to him because Dirk makes those passes with regularity.

Again, it makes no sense for James to help in this scenario. If you're Miami, the approach was, there are two main players on the Mavs. One is Terry. We'll take him out by putting Lebron on him, which is the equivalent of putting Deion Sanders on a receiver. Now the other is Dirk. Not only does putting James on Terry take Terry out, it also makes the Mavs predictable because you know with Lebron on Terry, they won't go to Terry. So now you put your best remaining matchup on Dirk, and rotate to help the same way you had the first two games. They had defended Dirk very well all night and really for most of Game 1.

It's why I don't understand why Bosh was on him instead of Haslem or Anthony, who had both been effective guarding Dirk, particularly Haslem with his lateral quickness. And the rotations that had been so good for the first two games failed them on that play, mostly because of the hip check Chandler put on Haslem, which took him away from the angle he had to challenge Dirk's shot.

What you guys are proposing is the defensive equivalent of "hero ball," as Doc Rivers would call it. You are proposing that James should have left one of the league's deadliest shooters unguarded because he was to assume that Bosh was about to get beat off the dribble by Dirk AND the rotations that had worked so well would fail in this case.

Nope. James played it right. Everything else on that play, particularly Bosh's on-ball defense, stunk.

But the bottom line on the play is Bosh was beaten so badly, help is very difficult because Bosh failed to take any angle to the basket away. After Dirk took that dribble to fake the step-back, Bosh was completely out of position.

 

[BTExpress]

As for the work hard reference, I guess you get to completely ignore the whole "we just want to chill" quote that Wojo got when thet tried to run Spolstra out of town after they started 9-8.

Criminy. So you get to completely ignore an entire body of work this season, ignore the things you saw, and the things you didn't (players shooting in arenas by themseves at 4 a.m.) . . . all because of one quote blown completely out of proportion?

Coaches are workaholics and perfectionists. Just because Michael Jordan didn't put in the 18-hour days of Doug Collins doesn't mean Jordan didn't want to work. Same for Spoelstra. He'll always want a little more. That's the way coaches are. Bosh is extremely intelligent. He (and most players) simply recognize the law of diminishing returns, since it's their bodies doing the work and needing the rest.

Can't wait to see what ridiculous tangent we go on next.

I was worried you were hugging you Peyton Manning doll on sorrow.

FWIW, I feel no sorrow when white laundry loses to blue laundry. I watch sports out of curiosity (what will happen?) and, other than tennis, do it so rarely that it surprises my wife when she sees me watching something (Her: "I didn't know you liked golf." Me: "I don't, but this is a great story shaping up at The Masters . . . ").

I also abhor the herd-like, pile-on mentality directed toward whomever SportsJournalists.com decides is its new villain and that turns missed shots into "choking" or "quitting" and not being on a good enough team as "can't win the big one" or "fraud" --- hence, my previous debates re: Manning. The herd is usually so transparent in their arguments that the galactic stupidity oftentimes begs to be recognized (see line about Heat not working hard).

Hope this helps with your next wave of misconceptions.

 

[Double Down]

Well, now I feel bad about not putting a clown suit on you for the galactic stupidity of your "The Decision was just like a high school press conference where a guy chooses a school!" line last week. As long as we're playing ombudsmen for one another's galactic stupidity. But I can see how some faint praise of Spolestra for holding together this all-star team early on (which is all that post implied) when they thought things should come easy to them might be construed as criticism of LeBron James because ever since the decision, anything short of people gently stroking his beard while Sade plays on the stereo is labeled by you as an unfair, group-think attack on him. Did you have any thoughts about the game in question here, or were you just waiting for Maverick Carter to send up a flare when the criticism seemed too much?

And for pete's sake, stop saying "their arguments" if you're mean "my arguments." It's not hard to address my points or Junkie's points, or TSD's points, or STG's points, separately. I don't own every single poster's criticism of LeBron James, but consistently, over and over, you speak to people here as if one poster's opinion represents us all. "The herd! The borg! The monstrous, bitter, angry borg! How courageous I am to stand up to thee!" Good job, Captain Picard. This kind Le Batardian argument lacks any kind of nuance at all. I actually like James as a player. I'm pretty sure I've said that here over the years. His total thrashing of the Pistons a few years ago is the funnest game I've watched since Kobe took apart the Spurs in 2001. I still think Miami is going to win this series, and they'll be worthy champions. I think criticizing him for joining forces with Wade is sort of silly, since no one rips Kevin Garnett, Pierce and Ray Allen for microwaving their championship in Boston. But to stand on the other side of your "Haters!" scale, I abhor it when a player is anointed "The GOAT" before he's actually earned it. I like watching guys actually earn it. It's easy to forget now some of the growing criticism Jordan got when he couldn't beat the Pistons. That was all part of the process, the grind. The grind is fun to watch, and often that means handling a measure of doubt along the way. I'm not sure why it's any more noble in your eyes to stand up to the Skip Baylesses of the world (which I guess I'm being cast as) than it is the Le Batards and Stephen A. Smiths.

Now excuse me while I surf away on the next wave of misconceptions. I think somewhere, on a thread far away, someone just called Ben Roethlisberger a better quarterback than John Elway.

 

[YGBFKM]

Well, now I feel bad about not putting a clown suit on you for the galactic stupidity of your "The Decision was just like a high school press conference where a guy chooses a school!" line last week. As long as we're playing ombudsmen for one another's galactic stupidity. But I can see how some faint praise of Spolestra for holding together this all-star team early on (which is all that post implied) when they thought things should come easy to them might be construed as criticism of LeBron James because ever since the decision, anything short of people gently stroking his beard while Sade plays on the stereo is labeled by you as an unfair, group-think attack on him. Did you have any thoughts about the game in question here, or were you just waiting for Maverick Carter to send up a flare when the criticism seemed too much?

And for pete's sake, stop saying "their arguments" if you're mean "my arguments." It's not hard to address my points or Junkie's points, or TSD's points, or STG's points, separately. I don't own every single poster's criticism of LeBron James, but consistently, over and over, you speak to people here as if one poster's opinion represents us all. "The herd! The borg! The monstrous, bitter, angry borg! How courageous I am to stand up to thee!" Good job, Captain Picard. This kind Le Batardian argument lacks any kind of nuance at all. I actually like James as a player. I'm pretty sure I've said that here over the years. His total thrashing of the Pistons a few years ago is the funnest game I've watched since Kobe took apart the Spurs in 2001. I still think Miami is going to win this series, and they'll be worthy champions. I think criticizing him for joining forces with Wade is sort of silly, since no one rips Kevin Garnett, Pierce and Ray Allen for microwaving their championship in Boston. But to stand on the other side of your "Haters!" scale, I abhor it when a player is anointed "The GOAT" before he's actually earned it. I like watching guys actually earn it. It's easy to forget now some of the growing criticism Jordan got when he couldn't beat the Pistons. That was all part of the process, the grind. The grind is fun to watch, and often that means handling a measure of doubt along the way. I'm not sure why it's any more noble in your eyes to stand up to the Skip Baylesses of the world (which I guess I'm being cast as) than it is the Le Batards and Stephen A. Smiths.

Now excuse me while I surf away on the next wave of misconceptions. I think somewhere, on a thread far away, someone just called Ben Roethlisberger a better quarterback than John Elway.

I don't know what it is inside you that prompts you to make such posts, but I hope it never dies.

 

[BTExpress]

But I can see how some faint praise of Spolestra for holding together this all-star team early on (which is all that post implied) when they thought things should come easy to them might be construed as criticism of LeBron James.

James was never a part of anything you posted nor anything I responded.

You made a crack about the team not wanting to work hard. I attacked it as ridiculous. You responded with one Chris Bosh quote blown out of proportion. I attacked it for being a ridiculous attempt to "prove" they did not want to work hard.

It has nothing to do with James that I can see. My only point today --- and since last summer --- was that if you criticize (James, Heat, Favre, whoever), MAKE IT RELEVANT AND CREDIBLE. Saying "they celebrated too much after Boston" and "they don't want to work hard" and screaming "quitter!" or "fraud!" just because a team loses or someone has a bad game simply is not credible. It just smacks of piling on for the sake of piling on.

The only reason you were lumped with the herd was because you made a ridiculous assertion (the team doesn't want to work hard), which has become a herd staple. Criticize Bosh for his terrible first two games . . . and I'll be right there to criticize, too. Criticize James or Wade for standing around in the last 7 minutes Thursday, and I'll likely agree with everything you say.

And for Pete's sake, post something if/when the Mavericks lose a game. Then you will separate yourself from the crickets.

 

[Double Down]

How is this for an amendment, Captain Picard:

1. I never said deck about the Boston series, since I didn't get to see any of it. I'll have to check with the rest of the Borg to see if someone used my key card before they launched those criticisms.

2. They didn't work very hard at the beginning of the season, then they worked really, really hard and played really well for long stretches during the year, James developed into a legit shutdown defender, and their hard work continued for 1.75 games of this series, then they didn't want to work hard again in the fourth quarter because it seemed more fun to launch jumpers.

3. Still want to see LeBron develop a post-up game and learn how to score with his back to the basket. Every elite player figures out eventually it's harder to score when you can jump over guys anymore. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe. Is that a fair criticism?

 

[BTExpress]

Sounds fair to me.

 

[BrianGriffin]

Well, now I feel bad about not putting a clown suit on you for the galactic stupidity of your "The Decision was just like a high school press conference where a guy chooses a school!" line last week. As long as we're playing ombudsmen for one another's galactic stupidity. But I can see how some faint praise of Spolestra for holding together this all-star team early on (which is all that post implied) when they thought things should come easy to them might be construed as criticism of LeBron James because ever since the decision, anything short of people gently stroking his beard while Sade plays on the stereo is labeled by you as an unfair, group-think attack on him. Did you have any thoughts about the game in question here, or were you just waiting for Maverick Carter to send up a flare when the criticism seemed too much?

And for pete's sake, stop saying "their arguments" if you're mean "my arguments." It's not hard to address my points or Junkie's points, or TSD's points, or STG's points, separately. I don't own every single poster's criticism of LeBron James, but consistently, over and over, you speak to people here as if one poster's opinion represents us all. "The herd! The borg! The monstrous, bitter, angry borg! How courageous I am to stand up to thee!" Good job, Captain Picard. This kind Le Batardian argument lacks any kind of nuance at all. I actually like James as a player. I'm pretty sure I've said that here over the years. His total thrashing of the Pistons a few years ago is the funnest game I've watched since Kobe took apart the Spurs in 2001. I still think Miami is going to win this series, and they'll be worthy champions. I think criticizing him for joining forces with Wade is sort of silly, since no one rips Kevin Garnett, Pierce and Ray Allen for microwaving their championship in Boston. But to stand on the other side of your "Haters!" scale, I abhor it when a player is anointed "The GOAT" before he's actually earned it. I like watching guys actually earn it. It's easy to forget now some of the growing criticism Jordan got when he couldn't beat the Pistons. That was all part of the process, the grind. The grind is fun to watch, and often that means handling a measure of doubt along the way. I'm not sure why it's any more noble in your eyes to stand up to the Skip Baylesses of the world (which I guess I'm being cast as) than it is the Le Batards and Stephen A. Smiths.

Now excuse me while I surf away on the next wave of misconceptions. I think somewhere, on a thread far away, someone just called Ben Roethlisberger a better quarterback than John Elway.

I thought Spoestra's game-planning, particularly defensive, coming into this series was very good. I thought the call on how aggressively to double Nowitzki was good, particularly on how the rotations were and how they made the open man the most difficult of passes for Dirk. And putting James on Terry down the stretch of games is a good call (of course, it's such a luxury to have that option).

But the late-game management in Game 2 was atrocious. I really don't get Bosh on Dirk. The other two guys had defended Dirk well, particularly Haslem. And it's not like that's the first possession where they set a down screen to get Dirk the ball at the top. In other words, Haslem had handled those scenarios before.