NBA Playoffs Thread

[BrianGriffin]

I don't have a problem with the way James is playing. To me, on this team, Wade is a more creative offensive presence so, if you want to have the ball in your most creative players' hands for big shots, that's Wade, not Lebron. That's no knock on James. It's just the price of chosing to be on a team with a lot of stars.

James is somewhat comparable to Pippen (I'm not just trying to be provocative) in that he is great for his cumulative talents, but Pippen was never going to be the "man" with the ball in his hands because Jordan was a better scorer and creator. That was one of many things Pippen did well, just not as good as Jordan.

Similarly, when it comes to a checklist of talents, you'd check James over Wade on many of them -- physical presence and strength, defensive ability among them -- but in terms of being able to make things happen with a ball in your hand isolated with a defender in space, Wade is simply better. And that feeds into a perception of either Wade being a better player in general (not necessarily the case) or James "backing away" from a challenge (not necessarily the case either.

I'm also not going to slam James' decision-making altogether. That pass he made to Chalmers to tie the game in Game 2 was a heck of a cross-court pass he made look easy. From out of bounds between the circles (if I recall right, maybe it was around the top of the key) to the far, opposite corner is not an easy pass. But it was the right pass and it was right on the money in the clutch.

And Dirk? I don't think he's getting much preferential treatment. He hasn't gotten to the line a whole lot in this series despite being pretty aggressive going to the basket. One somewhat questionable call down the stretch -- the other over-the-back was blatant -- does not preferential treatment make.

OK, so let's see if I get this straight --

You are OK with Lebron James jacking up bad 3's late in the shot clock down the stretch in Finals games, more often than not making the wrong pass to the wrong guy or worse, becoming a ball stopper and causing shot clock violations or near shot clock violations and missing a very easy ball rotation because he made a good pass to a wide open Chalmers....

You are OK with Lebron James - a guy who is supposed to be one of your go-to guys - scoring a grand total of six points in the fourth quarter of the past two Finals games -- SIX -- and being a complete no-show down the stretch in Game 2 because Dwayne Wade is better than him at creating offense for himself and thus it is unfair to expect him to do it, even though he singlehandily almost carried a horseshirt compilation of players in Cleveland to a championship a few years back.

You also think Dirk - who got back-to-back bailout calls down the stretch when Dallas needed points, was allowed a blatant (even by NBA standards) travel to set up one of his jumpers late in the game and also got away with a charge down the stretch, is not getting any preferential treatment by the refs...

And let me guess, you also think JJ Barea is a much better player than anyone on the Heat because he learned how to play in Europe as opposed to AAU...... :

Wow, you just put Puerto Rico in Europe. Says a lot...

But your basketball xenophobia is reaching new heights. Are you suggesting that eight of Dirk's 12 straight points down the stretch should have been disallowed because of various rules violations you imagined?

If they were going to start calling travels the way the rule book says they should be called, that would drastically change the NBA game. The website RefCalls.com, which reviews officials performance, said there were 23 missed travels last night, 14 on Miami, 9 on Dallas. That's one almost every two minutes. So you are suggesting, on a night when they had been letting travels go all night (which, I must add, was a typical night in the NBA), they'd call one on Dirk down the stretch? You are asking the officials to be as xenophobic as you are.

It's not worth complaining about for any one player because it's so widespread. It's ridiculous to bench about a travel missed on Dirk (not sure what play you were talking about) when James and Wade have made a living on missed travels in the Finals.

Now, to James.

What I'm not OK with in regards to James is James having the ball in an isolation or pick-and-roll against Marion in those situations, especially when you have Wade on the floor with him with nobody capable of guarding him. Given some help -- and Dallas was providing it either by the way the screeners' man was hedging on pick-and-rolls or with the way they quickly brought help on isolations or zoned-- Dallas is capable of containing James. Now, that's saying something because James is very good at getting to the rim, but Dallas is an outstanding defensive team. Many times, James would end up jacking up 3's because he couldn't turn the corner on the pick-and-roll. Sometimes he just made bad decisions.

Now, I don't think Dallas is capable of containing Wade in the same way. Wade is shifty and slippery with the ball in a way James isn't. For all of his incredible speed for a man buit like Karl Malone, James still can't change directions like Wade. Wade is so good at turning the corner and, while at full-speed, changing direction and exploding toward the rim. This allows him to split doubles and traps, or to slip between a defender hedging on the pick-and-roll and the man going through the pick, all these little things that allow the guy up top to get into the middle of the lane.

If I have James on my team and I'm playing a team that can zone and understands help like Dallas, I don't necessarily want him to have the ball on top. I might post him on Marion at the elbow (like Dallas does with Dirk) or (what a concept) run some offense. With Wade, I might not mind playing pick-and-role even against Dallas, even against the zone. He's slippery and when he's getting away with the hop-skip-jump like in Game 2, he's unstoppable.

But that's the NBA. No sense bitching.

By the way, here's the site I was referring to.
http://refcalls.com/

I'd like to see Miami run more pick-and-roll with James as the screener for Wade. How do you play that on defense? Especially if Miami has Chalmers and/or Bibby out to spot up for a shot along with Bosh at a short corner.

 

[BTExpress]

Does anyone think when their careers are all said and done that Wade will be held higher than James in the all-time great debates?

On this board? Absolutely.

But Wade was on a 15-67 team (that went 10-41 with him in the lineup) in 2007-08.

James took basically a 19-63 team (last year's Cavaliers roster, give or take a few games) and won 60 games with it.

Bottom line: Wade can't do it alone. James can't do it alone (but actually gave people hope that he could). Edge to James.

 

[JonnyD]

Does anyone think when their careers are all said and done that Wade will be held higher than James in the all-time great debates?

Will? I can see it.

Should? No.

 

[Stoney]

And let me guess, you also think JJ Barea is a much better player than anyone on the Heat because he learned how to play in Europe as opposed to AAU...... :

Umm, Barea is Puerto Rican and learned the game playing high school ball in Miami and then American college basketball at Northeastern. He has never played in Europe. I love this game where you try to group everyone who seems kinda foreign into the "gawdamn Euroballer" box.

 

[zagoshe]

Barrea didn't move to Miami until he was 17 and thus learned the game elsewhere and thus he fits clearly into my definition of the kind of eurotrash player briangriffin creams in his pants about. Forget that he defends nobody and against anyone with reasonable athleticism he is shut down without much effort - he has good fundamentals...

And brian - I don't expect every travel to be called which is why I couched it as "even bY NBA standards" because that was as blatant of a travel as I've seen and they usually get called but not against Dirk in this series. Similarly when a player puts a forearm up to the chest and runs through someone to the hoop,that's a text book charge.

So yes, at least eight of his fourth qaurter points were a fraud - and that's more than a coincidence.

And of course, in your rants about xenophobia, you overlook the fact that the guy I called the gold standard for preferential treatment was shane battier at duke.

As for James - if you really think it is not an issue that he's scored only six (or eight or whatever) in the past two fourth quarters, well, maybe you should stick to watching FIBA games and cheering for 7-footers who don't rebound but can shoot from 25 feet away

 

[zagoshe]

Oh wait one other thing - james and wade better get this done this year because according to Brian Griffin I'm sure the Bucks are going to win the next ten NBA titles now that Ricky Rubio is coming across the pond. The NBA is clearly not ready for a player of his caliber!

 

[TGO157]

Ricky Rubio is going to play in Minnesota.

 

[TGO157]

Does anyone think when their careers are all said and done that Wade will be held higher than James in the all-time great debates?

On this board? Absolutely.

But Wade was on a 15-67 team (that went 10-41 with him in the lineup) in 2007-08.

James took basically a 19-63 team (last year's Cavaliers roster, give or take a few games) and won 60 games with it.

Bottom line: Wade can't do it alone. James can't do it alone (but actually gave people hope that he could). Edge to James.

James can do MORE alone than Wade can (because of how much stronger and better of a passer he is).

But Wade has the championship gene to carry a team in the biggest of situations and James doesn't have it (at least, we haven't seen it yet).

 

[zagoshe]

TGO - good looking out - ok so it will be Minnesota winning the next ten titles....

 

[Stoney]

Barrea didn't move to Miami until he was 17 and thus learned the game elsewhere and thus he fits clearly into my definition of the kind of eurotrash player briangriffin creams in his pants about.

Seriously? So a childhood in Puerto Rico makes one "Eurotrash"? The same Puerto Rico that is part of the United States? Jesus, that's batshirt even by your standards, zag.

 

[Stoney]

the Bucks are going to win the next ten NBA titles now that Ricky Rubio is coming across the pond.

The Bucks?

I think somebody forgot to take their meds today.

 

[MileHigh]

Mark Jackson to coach the Warriors.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhL4O6nZg27loTLEGl2Eo4k5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_mark_jackson_warriors_0607011