• Welcome to SportsJournalists.com, a friendly forum for discussing all things sports and journalism.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register for a free account to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.
    • Fewer ads.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Newsweek piece on the Global Warming "Denial Machine"

Beaker said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20122975/site/newsweek/page/0/

Some of you may have seen this already, but Newsweek's cover story this week was about the ever so well-funded global warming deniers like oil cronies (and not to mention blowhards like Rush who maintains that global arming is a "hoax").

I don't know what's worse, those morons who can't see that global warming is a reality, or those who know it is but deny it for their own potential benefit.

The worst part is that as global warming becomes more of an everyday reality, the denials just get louder.

Will there be a follow-up piece on the taking-advantage-of-global-warming machine?
Saw a piece on the heat in my city today. We've had 10 days or so of consecutive 90-plus. Still well short of the record days of consecutive 90-plus -- set when global warming was raging in the 1940s.
 
Ace said:
pallister said:
I'm sure no one in the "Global warming will kill us all" camp has an agenda above and beyond any scientific findings.

Even if you don't believe, why would you be against trying to limit pollutants into the atmosphere?

I'm not. I'm all for limiting pollutants without damaging the economy.
Lets' get to that.
But don't tell me corn is the answer. It's not. The price of corn goes up, the economy tanks, all so farmers can squeeze the government for another taste of federal dough. No thanks.
 
Boom_70 said:
Idaho said:
Beaker said:
-i.e. birds getting killed flying into the wind towers...
cough, bullsh!t /cough

If the miniscule number of birds killed by windmills is a concern, he better get on board with burying all power line. 1,000x more birdies are electrocuted than chopped up by slow moving windmill blades.

The other rumor is that there is a concern that the wind mills would compete with Kennedy family energy company -- Citizens Energy.

I'm pretty sure that's all that is, Boom, a rumor. EMI, the company behind Cape Wind, is 30 years old, and has been on this Cape Cod wind farm project for a long time. Citizens' Wind, the for-profit wind division of the Kennedy non-profit Citizens' Energy (which gives low-cost fuel oil to the poor), was only founded in 2004. The Cape Cod wind farm was already a long-controversial project by then.
 
jgmacg said:
Boom_70 said:
Idaho said:
Beaker said:
-i.e. birds getting killed flying into the wind towers...
cough, bullsh!t /cough

If the miniscule number of birds killed by windmills is a concern, he better get on board with burying all power line. 1,000x more birdies are electrocuted than chopped up by slow moving windmill blades.

The other rumor is that there is a concern that the wind mills would compete with Kennedy family energy company -- Citizens Energy.

I'm pretty sure that's all that is, Boom, a rumor. EMI, the company behind Cape Wind, is 30 years old, and has been on this Cape Cod wind farm project for a long time. Citizens' Wind, the for-profit wind division of the Kennedy non-profit Citizens' Energy (which gives low-cost fuel oil to the poor), was only founded in 2004. The Cape Cod wind farm was already a long-controversial project by then.

Shall we discuss where Citizens Energy gets it's Oil or is that for another chapter.
 
Boom_70 said:
jgmacg said:
Boom_70 said:
Idaho said:
Beaker said:
-i.e. birds getting killed flying into the wind towers...
cough, bullsh!t /cough

If the miniscule number of birds killed by windmills is a concern, he better get on board with burying all power line. 1,000x more birdies are electrocuted than chopped up by slow moving windmill blades.

The other rumor is that there is a concern that the wind mills would compete with Kennedy family energy company -- Citizens Energy.

I'm pretty sure that's all that is, Boom, a rumor. EMI, the company behind Cape Wind, is 30 years old, and has been on this Cape Cod wind farm project for a long time. Citizens' Wind, the for-profit wind division of the Kennedy non-profit Citizens' Energy (which gives low-cost fuel oil to the poor), was only founded in 2004. The Cape Cod wind farm was already a long-controversial project by then.

Shall we discuss where Citizens Energy gets it's Oil or is that for another chapter.

Why don't we save it in case one of the Kennedy kids decides to run for president in 2008? Otherwise, what will we have to talk about?
 
Kennedy and a bunch of other Cape Cod bigwigs basically oppose the wind farm for aesthetic reasons -- they think it'll ruin their view. Not Teddy's shining moment, that's for sure.
 
FirstDownPirates said:
pallister said:
Fenian, you know as well as I do that you can follow the money to some of the people shouting loudest from the mountaintops that global warming has doomed the planet. I certainly believe global warming exists, but I don't believe modern man is strictly the reason. And I also don't believe it's as bad as some make it out to be. There's middle ground on this issue, as it is with every other big issue. You're intelligent enough to realize thatt. Everthing doesn't always have to be one end of the spectrum vs. the other. Of course, it's hard to see that when you're on one of those ends.

EDIT: jg, a serious question, do you think Kyoto, as it was written, would have been workable in a country with the size, population and production needs of the United States?

I do. People, and corporations, do what they are incented to do. The reason those companies are so profitable is because they have good businesspeople running them who know how to best navigate through the regulatory system while still giving their customers what they want. Put restrictions on them, and the same people will figure out a way to make it work. If they don't, somebody else will. Market rules.
Eventually, if you constrict the market enough, even the best buisness people fail. Now, that's probably (okay definitely) not a worry with Kyoto. But it's a somewhat faulty line of reasoning.
Personally, I'd like to see America be a leader in ANYTHING these days. If it's global warming so be it. Take the reins and run with it, damn it! So Kyoto's not perfect (you can't ask developing countries not to pollute. If it puts food on the table they will), but damn it, BE THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD!
I'm hardly a "green" person, but damn, I just want American to be a leader again.
 
jgmacg said:
- Relative to mass transit in this country, we are worse off than we were 80 years ago. And if you want to understand how corporate greed and singlemindedness can undermine public welfare, study up on how the car and rubber companies unmade the Los Angeles public transportation system. The "free market," so lauded as the disinterested arbiter of economic outcomes, does not exist in a vacuum. It is greasy with human thumbprints.

Let me preface this by saying I'm not trying to be a deck or anything. It's just a subject that seriously interests me.
But from the best that that I've been able to read up on this, it's a myth. There was a court case in which GM and a bunch of other companies were tried for violation of the Sherman Anti-Turst act, but none the other companies were convicted and the only thing GM was convicted on was making it so that the bus line they owned only bought buses from GM. Hardly a wide-ranging conspiracy to undermine the mass transit system.
The trolleys that were being used in LA weren't generally liked, and most cities had been coverting to buses since the late 20s, early 30s because trolleys were hemorrhaging money. And, from what I've read, Pacific Electric was already converting some lines to buses in 1917, well before GM came into the picture.
The general summation seems to be that the car is, essentially, the killer app. It was the choice of most people in LA before GM came into the picture because it was more convenient. And the change to buses was started long before GM came to town because PE couldn't turn a profit. It only did so in something like 8 of its 42 years.

This, as well as I've been able to read up on the case --- not something I have tons of time to do, so only happens and very odd intervals --- are the facts, and the notion of a far flung conspiracy are merely myth started by one notable government figure whose name eludes me. But it's something I'm interested in, and if you have conflicting information or sources, let me know.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be a deck, just passing along what I know of the case in hope of some enlightenment. Thanks!

(PS. hope this isn't too big of a thread-jack)
 
So much for electric buses:

Electric Bus Boondoggle?

Source: Cedar Rapids Gazette
[Jul 29, 2007]


SYNOPSIS: How Cedar Rapids, Iowa's grand experiment in electric-powered transit went bust. a d v e r t i s e r
g o o g l e
CEDAR RAPIDS — In a fenced-in lot along a railroad track off B Avenue NW, nine city buses sit in a line, little worn and little wanted.

The mothballed, electricpowered buses — purchased between late 1995 and late 1998 in a project that garnered $7.5 million in federal grants and came with a$10 million total price tag — are testaments to a promising transit experiment in renewable energy that never worked out.

Brad DeBrower, the city's transit manager, noted recently that a few of the city's workhorse diesel buses have logged a million miles before heading out to pasture.

The Federal Transit Administration standard, he added, can require a new, federally subsidized city bus weather 12 years of life and travel 500,000 miles.

In contrast, the city's nine electric buses, four all-electrics and five hybrids, have mileage totals that DeBrower admits are "scary low."

The range: 6,601, 8,794 and 9,013 miles on the low end to 24,730 miles on the high end. Fred Rossow, senior electrical engineer at Rockwell Collins who managed the city's electric bus program from 1998 to early 2005, recalled Wednesday how the city's bus mechanics and drivers came to hate the electric buses because they broke down along bus routes so often.

"They didn't like hauling them in off the street," Rossow said. "We towed a lot of buses back to the garage.

". . . It was kind of a standing joke that we could put a tow truck in front of them and run them on routes."

In a memo to the Federal Transit Administration in August 2006, Bill hopekstra, who was then the city's transit chief, noted that the city had mothballed one of the nine buses in 2000, one in 2002, one in 2003, three in 2004 and three in 2005.

The memo came after the failure of the city's electric bus fleet raised a red flag with the Federal Transit Administration when federal officials learned the city had more buses than it should.

DeBrower explained that cities are to limit the number of spare buses to 20 percent of the number of buses it uses at peak times. In Cedar Rapids, peak use is 28 or 29 buses, and the nine mothballed electric buses put the city "way out of whack" with the federal rule, DeBrower said.

The worst fear has been that the city might have to pay back $2 million or so to the federal government — what amounts to 80 percent of the buses' total cost of $2.65 million.

DeBrower, however, said the city continues to try to unload the buses in an arrangement that the Federal Transit Administration finds acceptable. One hope, he said, is that Bowling Green State University's Electric Vehicle Institute might come to the rescue. On Wednesday, Paul Griffo, a Federal Transit Administration spokesman in Washington, D.C., took a conciliatory tone, noting that the Cedar Rapids project's use of "innovative" technology could provide an exception to some agency rules.

Griffo called the project a $10 million one and noted that the city received two federal grants for it: one for $ 3 million, another for $4.477 million.

Origin of fleet
Back in 1993, it was all possibilities when the idea for an experimental fleet of electric buses began to take shape for Cedar Rapids.

The idea was sold to federal transit officials as an "alternative fuels" initiative that would test whether electric batteries could fuel a fleet of buses in a place with cold winters.

Termed the Cedar Rapids Electric Transportation Consortium, the city of Cedar Rapids, IES Industries Inc., Westinghouse Electric Corp. and Blue Bird Corp. all signed on.

The initial proposal called for a $10.685 million project, with the federal government paying $8.361 million, the city of Cedar Rapids $1.054 million, and the other players something less than that.

Problems with buses
The project, which launched in late 1996, was struggling when the city brought Fred Rossow on to manage it in 1998.

Rossow, who called his seven years with the project "frustrating," said the chief problem with the program was the intricate electronic drive system in the buses that never worked correctly. Once Westinghouse sold the business and then it was sold again, it was difficult to get system support, Rossow said. Another problem was the bus batteries. Eventually, the city found quality batteries made in Germany, only to see the United States and Germany enter a tariff war that, Rossow said, involved bananas and electric batteries. This put the cost of the German batteries out of reach for three to four years, he said. Among other problems was the city's battery pack, which he said weighed 2 tons and couldn't be readily changed out. Other cities with electric buses or hybrids, he noted, use battery packs they can be swapped out to keep the buses on the street.

Rossow said hybrid electric buses have a future, noting that New York City, Miami and Seattle use them today. Hybrids cost less to operate and pollute less, though they cost about 20 percent more than a standard bus, he said.

Electric-powered buses no longer used by the city sit in a transportation yard in northwest Cedar Rapids. The city has mothballed its fleet of nine electric-powered buses (five hybrids and four all-electrics) that were purchased in the 1990s in a project funded largely by federal grants. The buses broke down often and failed to live up to the promise the city envisioned.
 
Anyone here seen "Who Killed the Electric Car?" Worth watching.
 
amraeder said:
jgmacg said:
- Relative to mass transit in this country, we are worse off than we were 80 years ago. And if you want to understand how corporate greed and singlemindedness can undermine public welfare, study up on how the car and rubber companies unmade the Los Angeles public transportation system. The "free market," so lauded as the disinterested arbiter of economic outcomes, does not exist in a vacuum. It is greasy with human thumbprints.

Let me preface this by saying I'm not trying to be a deck or anything. It's just a subject that seriously interests me.
But from the best that that I've been able to read up on this, it's a myth. There was a court case in which GM and a bunch of other companies were tried for violation of the Sherman Anti-Turst act, but none the other companies were convicted and the only thing GM was convicted on was making it so that the bus line they owned only bought buses from GM. Hardly a wide-ranging conspiracy to undermine the mass transit system.
The trolleys that were being used in LA weren't generally liked, and most cities had been coverting to buses since the late 20s, early 30s because trolleys were hemorrhaging money. And, from what I've read, Pacific Electric was already converting some lines to buses in 1917, well before GM came into the picture.
The general summation seems to be that the car is, essentially, the killer app. It was the choice of most people in LA before GM came into the picture because it was more convenient. And the change to buses was started long before GM came to town because PE couldn't turn a profit. It only did so in something like 8 of its 42 years.

This, as well as I've been able to read up on the case --- not something I have tons of time to do, so only happens and very odd intervals --- are the facts, and the notion of a far flung conspiracy are merely myth started by one notable government figure whose name eludes me. But it's something I'm interested in, and if you have conflicting information or sources, let me know.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be a deck, just passing along what I know of the case in hope of some enlightenment. Thanks!

(PS. hope this isn't too big of a thread-jack)

Hi Raeder,

The conspiracy theorist you're talking about is Snell. Here's a more reasonable version of events:

http://www.baycrossings.com/Archives/2003/04_May/paving_the_way_for_buses_the_great_gm_streetcar_conspiracy.htm

And for the Lefties, here's a precis from Chomsky:

http://www.bilderberg.org/nclchoms.htm

Apart from the regular bombardment of the senses through advertising and media portrayal of life-as-it-should-be-lived, corporate-government initiatives are undertaken on an enormous scale to shape consumer tastes. One dramatic example is the "Los Angelizing" of the US economy, a huge state-corporate campaign to direct consumer preferences to "suburban sprawl and individualized transport -- as opposed to clustered suburbanization compatible with a mix of rail, bus, and motor car transport," Richard Du Boff observes in his economic history of the United States, a policy that involved "massive destruction of central city capital stock" and "relocating rather than augmenting the supply of housing, commercial structures, and public infrastructure." The role of the federal government was to provide funds for "complete motorization and the crippling of surface mass transit"; this was the major thrust of the Federal Highway Acts of 1944, 1956, and 1968, implementing a strategy designed by GM chairman Alfred Sloan. Huge sums were spent on interstate highways without interference, as Congress surrendered control to the Bureau of Public Roads; about 1 percent of the sum was devoted to rail transit. The Federal Highway Administration estimated total expenditures at $80 billion by 1981, with another $40 billion planned for the next decade. State and local governments managed the process on the scene.

The private sector operated in parallel: "Between 1936 and 1950, National City Lines, a holding company sponsored and funded by GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil of California, bought out more than 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities (including New York, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, Tulsa, and Los Angeles) to be dismantled and replaced with GM buses... In 1949 GM and its partners were convicted in U.S.district court in Chicago of criminal conspiracy in this matter and fined $5,000."

By the mid-1960s, one out of six business enterprises was directly dependent on the motor vehicle industry. The federal spending helped keep the economy afloat. Eisenhower's fears of "another Depression setting in after the Korean War" were allayed, a US Transportation Department official reported.

A congressional architect of the highway program, John Blatnik of Minnesota, observed that "It put a nice solid floor across the whole economy in times of recession." These government programs supplemented the huge subsidy to high technology industry through the military system, which provided the primary stimulus and support needed to sustain the moribund system of private enterprise that had collapsed in the 1930s(9).

The general impact on culture and society was immense, apart from the economy itself. Democratic decision-making played little role in this massive project of redesigning the contemporary world, and only in marginal respects was it a reflection of consumer choice. Consumers made choices no doubt, as voters do, within a narrowly determined framework of options designed by those who own the society and manage it with their own interests in mind. The real world bears little resemblance to the dreamy fantasies now fashionable about History converging to an ideal of liberal democracy that is the ultimate realization of Freedom.


It's a terrifically complex story. Two more links:

http://www.almankoff.com/0322scandal.shtml

http://www.almankoff.com/scandal.shtml
 

Latest posts

Back
Top