NFL MVP - Brees or Rodgers?

[old_tony]

Peyton Manning

Beat me to it.
I was going to say Peyton's the MVP as well. No way do the Colts go 2-14 if he was playing.

Except that the P part stands for "player," not spectator.

 

[Stoney]

I'll say this much: After 10 straight years of the exact same Manning v. Brady question debated over and over and over and over, it is nice to finally see a couple new characters leading the best QB debate.

 

[NickMordo]

Put Rodgers on the Patriots, and I bet they finish 14-2. At worst.

Rodgers yes, Brees I doubt.

Why not? I mean, all he did was lead the most prolific offense in NFL history while setting the league's single-season passing record. On top of everything else, Brees had a better rating than Brady, so one would expect Brees to have given the Patriots slightly better results.

Of course, these guys aren't simply interchangeable. All three have been with their teams for many years. So plug Aaron Rodgers into the Patriots and he would struggle some with adjusting. Same with Brees. Same with Brady.

Brees does play a minimum of eight games on a fast track. Didn't work for the 2001 Rams.

 

[93Devil]

Rodgers played lights-out in every game. He threw for 45 touchdowns and six interceptions, and it could have been more if so many of the Packers' games weren't huge blowouts.

Brees shattered Marino's yards record, but he averaged fewer yards a pass than Rodgers (8.34 to 9.25). And he threw for 46 touchdowns but 14 interceptions. If the Packers left Rodgers in and throwing in blowouts the way the Saints did Brees, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

I think Rodgers made up for his only games with a quarterback rating of less than 100 (96.7 against the Raiders in Week 14, 80.1 against the Chiefs in Week 15) with a ridiculous Week 16. And here are his numbers against playoff teams:

Week 1 vs. the Saints: 27-for-35 for 312 yards, three touchdowns and no interceptions
Week 4 vs. the Broncos: 29-for-38 for 408 yards, four touchdowns and one interception
Week 5 at the Falcons: 26-for-39 for 396 yards, two touchdowns and no interceptions
Week 12 at the Lions: 22-for-33 for 307 yards, two touchdowns and no interceptions
Week 13 at the Giants: 28-for-46 for 369 yards, four touchdowns and one interception

Rodgers also never had the kind of games Brees posted in losses at the Rams and Buccaneers (two touchdowns and five interceptions, combined).

I think that Rodgers vs playoff teams bit of research should have ended this thread, but this might help as well.

Brees road passer rating 100
Rodgers road passer rating 117

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I'll say this much: After 10 straight years of the exact same Manning v. Brady question debated over and over and over and over, it is nice to finally see a couple new characters leading the best QB debate.

Agree completely... The league has done pretty well as of late, going from Manning and Brady to Brees and Rodgers... Brees and Rodgers are as likable and classy as you'll see in elite professional athletes... Then again, Manning was as well, and Brady isn't too far behind either...

 

[JC]

Put Rodgers on the Patriots, and I bet they finish 14-2. At worst.

Rodgers yes, Brees I doubt.

Why not? I mean, all he did was lead the most prolific offense in NFL history while setting the league's single-season passing record. On top of everything else, Brees had a better rating than Brady, so one would expect Brees to have given the Patriots slightly better results.

Of course, these guys aren't simply interchangeable. All three have been with their teams for many years. So plug Aaron Rodgers into the Patriots and he would struggle some with adjusting. Same with Brees. Same with Brady.

because this isn't baseball where numbers tell 95% of the story. I think Double Down did a great job of breaking it down.

 

[BrianGriffin]

That is patently unfair to any dome QB though. Of course any QB (or kicker) would rather play in a controlled environment and the more you play in one, the more you would struggle to make a short-term adjustment outdoors.

That should not imply that if a Brees or Manning had to play outside, they wouldn't adjust to playing outside and continue to excel. And it should not imply that Brady or Rodgers would put up even better numbers indoors.

After all, wasn't Brees' best season prior to 2009 the 2004 season in San Diego where he played primarily outdoors?

In his first three seasons playing home games in a dome, he did not throw it as well as he did in 2004 playing primarily outdoors. He eventually had better seasons, but not because of a dome but because he was on better teams and HE became a better QB.

 

[heyabbott]

Peyton ELI Manning

More worthy

 

[JC]

Playing 13 games inside compared to playing all your games outside does not help your passing stats? C'mon, that is absurd. Brees is a great QB, but Christ this talk of the passing record is becoming annoying. Do you really think if Brady plays 3/4 of his games indoors he doesn't crush that record.
Too lazy to look it up but I would love to see what Brees splits are from indoors to outdoors, maybe I'm wrong and he is just as effective of a passer. They are both great QB's and I'm not trying to knock Brees by any means but I think there are legitimate reasons for the difference in stats.

 

[dreunc1542]

Playing 13 games inside compared to playing all your games outside does not help your passing stats? C'mon, that is absurd. Brees is a great QB, but Christ this talk of the passing record is becoming annoying. Do you really think if Brady plays 3/4 of his games indoors he doesn't crush that record.
Too lazy to look it up but I would love to see what Brees splits are from indoors to outdoors, maybe I'm wrong and he is just as effective of a passer. They are both great QB's and I'm not trying to knock Brees by any means but I think there are legitimate reasons for the difference in stats.

This is most likely true. Brady is the better quarterback, but Brees still had the better season and that's what we have to go on for picking the MVP. For that reason, it should be Rodgers and Brees, 1 and 2.

 

[BrianGriffin]

Playing 13 games inside compared to playing all your games outside does not help your passing stats? C'mon, that is absurd. Brees is a great QB, but Christ this talk of the passing record is becoming annoying. Do you really think if Brady plays 3/4 of his games indoors he doesn't crush that record.
Too lazy to look it up but I would love to see what Brees splits are from indoors to outdoors, maybe I'm wrong and he is just as effective of a passer. They are both great QB's and I'm not trying to knock Brees by any means but I think there are legitimate reasons for the difference in stats.

Brady would crush the record if he plays well enough to crush the record. It's interesting that the record that was broken was set outdoors.

There've been great numbers put up by QBs that play outdoors. To me, it's not enough of a detriment to be a deciding factor in this discussion.

This is most likely true. Brady is the better quarterback, but Brees still had the better season and that's what we have to go on for picking the MVP. For that reason, it should be Rodgers and Brees, 1 and 2.

I think we are at a point where this post-season will come a long way in determining how the "Who's the best?" question is answered. Brees and Rodgers have both won Super Bowls since Brady won his last playoff game, right? If either one of those guys wins the Super Bowl this year, I think Brady takes a back seat in the discussion, especially if the Patriots suffer another early exit.

If none of the three win, the discussion would be interesting, wouldn't it? If Alex Smith wins the Super Bowl over Joe Flacco and all three gunslingers crap out in the playoffs, what would perception be then?

 

[Double Down]

Aaron Rodgers indoors this season:

3 games. 72-of-102 (70.6 percent) for 1038 yards. (346 yards per game.) 7 TDs, 0 INTs. Averaged 10.2 yards per attempt. QB rating of 126.2.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7200/splits

Drew Brees outdoors.

5 games. 160-of-230 (69.6 percent) for 1849 yards (369.8 per game). 8.0 yards per attempt. 9 TDs and 6 INTs. QB rating of 95.7.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5479/splits;_ylt=AnwRpvlFywAPiB4kVq881ef.uLYF

There is just no fricken way anyone should dismiss how playing in a dome has had factored into Brees' historic season.

Would Brees adjust to playing outdoors? Sure. He actually played better outdoors than indoors in 2006.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5479/splits;_ylt=AnwRpvlFywAPiB4kVq881ef.uLYF?year=2006

But when we're talking about two historic seasons that are extremely close, one of them clearly came with a higher degree of difficulty. Rodgers TD percentage (of his total throws) was 9 percent. His average yards gained was 9.2 per pass. (Brees TD% was 7.0 and his yards gained per pass was 8.3.) Let Rodgers throw 155 more passes (which is how many more passes Brees threw while playing 70 percent of his games in a dome) and the projection for Rodgers is 6,049 yards and 59 touchdowns. And that is WITHOUT adjusting for indoor/outdoor splits. Rodgers played 80 percent of his games outdoors.

If someone wants to do the old school baseball thing and try to factor in leadership and various stuff that's completely not quantifiable, I'll absolutely listen to that argument. Because I do believe Drew Brees transformed that franchise. He probably did more to save it from leaving that city than any player in NFL history has done for his home team. (Of course, that happened several years ago, but we'll assume some residual carry over.) And unlike baseball, I do think leadership from a quarterback matters a lot more than leadership from a left fielder or a catcher. It's not a game where you can be a total recluse or a diva and ignore your teammates, but have an OPS of 1.422 and clearly still be the Most Valuable Player in the league.

But as far as statistics, when you factor in the environment, Rodgers easily had the better season.