NFL MVP - Brees or Rodgers?

[JC]

Playing 13 games inside compared to playing all your games outside does not help your passing stats? C'mon, that is absurd. Brees is a great QB, but Christ this talk of the passing record is becoming annoying. Do you really think if Brady plays 3/4 of his games indoors he doesn't crush that record.
Too lazy to look it up but I would love to see what Brees splits are from indoors to outdoors, maybe I'm wrong and he is just as effective of a passer. They are both great QB's and I'm not trying to knock Brees by any means but I think there are legitimate reasons for the difference in stats.

You do realize that Brady DID crush Marino's record this year, too?

Thanks tips.

 

[BrianGriffin]

Aaron Rodgers indoors this season:

3 games. 72-of-102 (70.6 percent) for 1038 yards. (346 yards per game.) 7 TDs, 0 INTs. Averaged 10.2 yards per attempt. QB rating of 126.2.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7200/splits

Drew Brees outdoors.

5 games. 160-of-230 (69.6 percent) for 1849 yards (369.8 per game). 8.0 yards per attempt. 9 TDs and 6 INTs. QB rating of 95.7.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5479/splits;_ylt=AnwRpvlFywAPiB4kVq881ef.uLYF

There is just no fricken way anyone should dismiss how playing in a dome has had factored into Brees' historic season.

Would Brees adjust to playing outdoors? Sure. He actually played better outdoors than indoors in 2006.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5479/splits;_ylt=AnwRpvlFywAPiB4kVq881ef.uLYF?year=2006

But when we're talking about two historic seasons that are extremely close, one of them clearly came with a higher degree of difficulty. Rodgers TD percentage (of his total throws) was 9 percent. His average yards gained was 9.2 per pass. (Brees TD% was 7.0 and his yards gained per pass was 8.3.) Let Rodgers throw 155 more passes (which is how many more passes Brees threw while playing 70 percent of his games in a dome) and the projection for Rodgers is 6,049 yards and 59 touchdowns. And that is WITHOUT adjusting for indoor/outdoor splits. Rodgers played 80 percent of his games outdoors.

If someone wants to do the old school baseball thing and try to factor in leadership and various stuff that's completely not quantifiable, I'll absolutely listen to that argument. Because I do believe Drew Brees transformed that franchise. He probably did more to save it from leaving that city than any player in NFL history has done for his home team. (Of course, that happened several years ago, but we'll assume some residual carry over.) And unlike baseball, I do think leadership from a quarterback matters a lot more than leadership from a left fielder or a catcher. It's not a game where you can be a total recluse or a diva and ignore your teammates, but have an OPS of 1.422 and clearly still be the Most Valuable Player in the league.

But as far as statistics, when you factor in the environment, Rodgers easily had the better season.

My point before is that for QBs that move into domes and get used to playing in domes 2/3 of the time, it could affect outdoor performance because they become more accustomed to a controlled environment.

However, if forced to adjust to being an outdoor QB, they can, as Brees' 2004 season (QB rating of 104ish, without looking it up) with San Diego demonstrates.

Outdoor QBs should have no such issue "adjusting" to playing indoors because indoor conditions are controlled, obviously.

So in a sense, an outdoors QB should have an advantage in that regard. If Drew Brees plays 10 straight games indoors, then goes outside, it's an adjustment. For Brady and Rodgers, playing outside is a week-in, week-out fact of life and switching up to playing inside for a game should not bother them at all.

And Marino, Fouts, Favre and many others have shown that once acclimated, playing outdoors is no detriment to successful passing.

 

[Double Down]

So using this logic, Brees is actually hampered by playing in a dome then.

 

[BrianGriffin]

So using this logic, Brees is actually hampered by playing in a dome then.

I wouldn't say he's hampered. I'd say it offsets the advantage of playing inside more often. I think it's accurate to say that Brees and Manning will not perform as well in a game played outside because they have to adjust to something they don't do often. But if they played outside all the time, they would be more consistent across-the-board.

I mean, Brees DID do quite well as an outdoor QB before he went to the Saints, right?

 

[JC]

So using this logic, Brees is actually hampered by playing in a dome then.

I wouldn't say he's hampered. I'd say it offsets the advantage of playing inside more often. I think it's accurate to say that Brees and Manning will not perform as well in a game played outside because they have to adjust to something they don't do often. But if they played outside all the time, they would be more consistent across-the-board.

I mean, Brees DID do quite well as an outdoor QB before he went to the Saints, right?

Brees stats would not be the same without 70% of his games in a dome, they just wouldn't. This does not mean he wouldn't be very successful outdoors it just means that ANY QB would have better stats playing 70% of their games indoors. This should be taken into account with Brees stats. This is what makes what Rodgers and Brady have done that much more impressive.

 

[Double Down]

Did he have a historic season? Because that is what this thread is debating. At no point have I said Brees would not be a good quarterback if he played 80 percent of his games outdoors. But I'm confident he would not be better than Aaron Rodgers, who this year, had one of the greatest seasons in NFL history while playing 80 percent of his games outdoors. Rodgers had a better season this year even though Brees played in a controlled environment. There is no real metric anyone can point to that says Brees was better.

Again, but Brees in Green Bay and he's a great quarterback, just not as great as he is playing indoors. I don't see any way it can be argued Rodgers gets worse if he goes indoors. He's the superior player. He just happened to have a good backup who played great against a bad team which led the Dean of NFL writers and King of Convaluded thinking into stating that it forced him to reevaluate his MVP vote.

 

[BrianGriffin]

Brees stats in 2004 were better than his stats in 2006, 2007 and 2008 playing mostly indoors and on comparable teams. In 2009-now, he's been better, but that's because HE'S better, not because he finally figured out how to take advantage of the roof over his head.

 

[JC]

Brees stats in 2004 were better than his stats in 2006, 2007 and 2008 playing mostly indoors and on comparable teams. In 2009-now, he's been better, but that's because HE'S better, not because he finally figured out how to take advantage of the roof over his head.

He is better and playing in perfect conditions helps anybody. Please name on QB who wouldn't have better stats inside. Tebow doesn't count.

 

[rmanfredi]

Found this interesting: Rodgers only played in three games this season against teams with pass defenses ranked in the top half of the league (Rams, Chargers and Chiefs). Brees played in five (Texans, Jags, Colts, Rams, Titans). Cumulative stats for each in these games:

Brees: 31.8 PA/G, 42.8 PC/G, 74.3%, 330.4 YPG, 12 TD, 6 INT
Rodgers: 18.7 PA/G, 30 PC/G, 62.2%, 266 YPG, 8 TD, 1 INT

 

[LongTimeListener]

Lol yeah the Rams and Colts had awesome pass defense!

Maybe those rankings are based on how incredibly easy it was to run on teams too. God, what a worthless jumble of stats that was.

 

[JC]

Lol yeah the Rams and Colts had awesome pass defense!

Maybe those rankings are based on how incredibly easy it was to run on teams too. God, what a worthless jumble of stats that was.

agreed

 

[93Devil]

How about looking at the Rodgers vs Brees debate this way...

In the last 20 years, how many years would Brees have NOT won the MVP? I doubt it's a number higher than five (and I am just guessing).

Brees just had his career year when another great QB was having his career year.