NFL MVP - Brees or Rodgers?

[buckweaver]

In 2010, when it's being argued that Brees was too much of a pampered dome quarterback to perform outdoors, here were Brees' splits:

BY LOCATION CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
OUTDOORS 129 188 1,350 68.6 7.18 52 12 4 7 101.6 2 2 1.0 3 0
INDOORS 319 470 3,270 67.9 6.96 80 21 18 18 86.6 16 -5 -0.3 7 0

He was MUCH better outside than inside in 2010. Imagine if he, like Rodgers and Brady, got to play ALL his games outside :

What does this have to do with the 2011 MVP discussion?

 

[JC]

My god Brian, what Brees did 6 years ago has no bearing on what we are talking about since Brees also played outdoors in SAN DIEGO, not the northesast.

So in your educated opinion if Brady played in a dome 70% of the time with Brees weapons this year his numbers wouldn't have been better? Brees numbers playing outdorrs in the Northeast would have been the same or better because 6 years ago he played just as well as a west coast QB? You really believe this?

By the way there is no debate on Brees vs Rodgers, Rodgers is head and shoulders better than Brees. I am talking Brady vs Brees. I would say Brees gets the Coors field effect.

 

[JC]

Brees stats would not be the same without 70% of his games in a dome, they just wouldn't.

Then why was Brees' best season prior to 2009 when he was still primarily an outdoor quarterback?

Look, I'm not saying playing indoors is not more ideal. I am saying that of all the factors that contribute to a quarterbacks' stats, "he plays indoors" should be very, very low on the list, for all the reasons I've mentioned. Especially now with fields so well taken care of, neutralizing the "poor playing surface" factor most of the time.

Four of the bottom five QBs this year played their home games in domes - Bradford, Painter, Skelton and Ponder. Ahead of them, 23 of the top 28 QBs played primarily outdoors.

Why? Where you play is a negligible factor unless the conditions are at an extreme.






[/quote]
because apart from Bradford those QB's stink. Playing indoors does not make you a good QB, but everything being equal it sure as heck gives you an advantage.

 

[BrianGriffin]

In 2010, when it's being argued that Brees was too much of a pampered dome quarterback to perform outdoors, here were Brees' splits:

BY LOCATION CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
OUTDOORS 129 188 1,350 68.6 7.18 52 12 4 7 101.6 2 2 1.0 3 0
INDOORS 319 470 3,270 67.9 6.96 80 21 18 18 86.6 16 -5 -0.3 7 0

He was MUCH better outside than inside in 2010. Imagine if he, like Rodgers and Brady, got to play ALL his games outside :

What does this have to do with the 2011 MVP discussion?

It was suggested that Brees' stats relative to Brady are padded from playing in a dome. The histories of neither quarterback, nor the league tendencies, agree with that assertion.

 

[BrianGriffin]

Brees stats would not be the same without 70% of his games in a dome, they just wouldn't.

Then why was Brees' best season prior to 2009 when he was still primarily an outdoor quarterback?

Look, I'm not saying playing indoors is not more ideal. I am saying that of all the factors that contribute to a quarterbacks' stats, "he plays indoors" should be very, very low on the list, for all the reasons I've mentioned. Especially now with fields so well taken care of, neutralizing the "poor playing surface" factor most of the time.

Four of the bottom five QBs this year played their home games in domes - Bradford, Painter, Skelton and Ponder. Ahead of them, 23 of the top 28 QBs played primarily outdoors.

Why? Where you play is a negligible factor unless the conditions are at an extreme.

because apart from Bradford those QB's stink. Playing indoors does not make you a good QB, but everything being equal it sure as heck gives you an advantage.
[/quote]

Then why are Brady's career stats outdoor vs. indoors pretty much a wash? Why has Brees more often been better outdoors (the outdoor-indoor split is available on the player page at ESPN.com)?

 

[JC]

In 2010, when it's being argued that Brees was too much of a pampered dome quarterback to perform outdoors, here were Brees' splits:

BY LOCATION CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
OUTDOORS 129 188 1,350 68.6 7.18 52 12 4 7 101.6 2 2 1.0 3 0
INDOORS 319 470 3,270 67.9 6.96 80 21 18 18 86.6 16 -5 -0.3 7 0

He was MUCH better outside than inside in 2010. Imagine if he, like Rodgers and Brady, got to play ALL his games outside :

What does this have to do with the 2011 MVP discussion?

It was suggested that Brees' stats relative to Brady are padded from playing in a dome. The histories of neither quarterback, nor the league tendencies, agree with that assertion.

This is not baseball. Lets see, throw a ball in the rain, throw a ball in the wind, throw a ball with no elements, which is easier?

 

[LongTimeListener]

What is the Saints' record in those outdoor games? What you seem to define as "better" is limited solely to the measure of passer rating. A lot of those games he is racking up huge stats as his team trails by quite a few points.

 

[Rumpleforeskin]

Tough one to call. Just by eye-balling their stats against common opponents in 2011, it looks like a dead heat. I'd give the edge to Rodgers, but barely.

 

[JC]

What is the Saints' record in those outdoor games? What you seem to define as "better" is limited solely to the measure of passer rating. A lot of those games he is racking up huge stats as his team trails by quite a few points.

It's not even about that it's about common sense.
Not every game is created equally. It is just so dishonet to argue that is not easier to throw a football indoors than out.

 

[Rumpleforeskin]

Does anybody see this a bit similar to the 1998 NL MVP vote?

You have two heavyweights going back and forth throughout the season with each eclipsing previous marks deemed unfathomable.

Brees plays the part of McGwire, while Rodgers takes the guise of Sosa.

 

[JC]

Does anybody see this a bit similar to the 1998 NL MVP vote?

You have two heavyweights going back and forth throughout the season with each eclipsing previous marks deemed unfathomable.

Brees plays the part of McGwire, while Rodgers takes the guise of Sosa.

NO

 

[BrianGriffin]

What is the Saints' record in those outdoor games? What you seem to define as "better" is limited solely to the measure of passer rating. A lot of those games he is racking up huge stats as his team trails by quite a few points.

Saints were 4-1 outdoors, 7-4 indoors in 2010.

JC's common sense can be defined as "assumptions based on not looking up facts."