NFL playoff thread

[Bubbler]

Elway's team was losing to the likes of the Giants, Redskins and 49ers. Those were vastly superior teams. Not even the same game.

They were? The only team among those that was vastly superior was the '89 49ers.

Wow, you can't be serious with that. It was men against boys especially along the lines. AFC was strictly JV football then, losing 13 Super Bowls in a row. (But, to just go by overall records, the '86 Giants were also 14-2 to the Broncos' 11-5.)

The AFC was not JV football, and while that '86 Giants team was better than the '86 Broncos, it was hardly men against boys. The Giants won the regular season game 9-3 at home. The '86 Broncos were better than one-year wonder road apples like the '85 Patriots, '94 Chargers or '98 Falcons.

And that doesn't address the assertion that the '87 Redskins were "vastly superior". That '87 Redskins team is on the short list of worst Super Bowl champions ever.

 

[LongTimeListener]

And yet won by 32 points. Go figure.

In any given year in that era, there were three or four NFC teams better than the AFC's best.

 

[BTExpress]

Elway's team was losing to the likes of the Giants, Redskins and 49ers. Those were vastly superior teams. Not even the same game.

Manning's teams lose to teams that they easily outpace, both in overall record and head-to-head matchup, in the regular season.

Oh, really?

Elway's sub-200-yard playoff games came against:

Seahawks
Steelers
49ers
Bills
Chiefs
Packers
Dolphins
Jets

And he didn't lose 'em all. That's kind of my point.

His team was able to beat the Patriots despite a 13-of-32, 2 INT performance.
His team was able to beat the Jets despite a 13-of-34, 173-yard performance.

My point, made about 20 pages ago, is that ALL quarterbacks underperform in the playoffs vis a vis the regular season. Every one of them (well, except Flacco, it seems). Many on this board seem to think Manning is somehow unique in this regard.

 

[YGBFKM]

Elway didn't have the luxury of Hall of Fame teammates that could be blamed for his failure. Remember when Reggie Wayne forked up and cost Manning a ring?

 

[LongTimeListener]

And yet so many of those guys end up with winning records and last-minute drives and not throwing interceptions in overtime and whatnot. Strange luck.

 

[YGBFKM]

And yet so many of those guys end up with winning records and last-minute drives and not throwing interceptions in overtime and whatnot. Strange luck.

Those facts are irrelevant to something.

 

[outofplace]

"Through three quarters."

And now we're back to the terrible kind of cherrypicking. The fourth quarter counts, too. Some have argued it counts more than the others.

Three through three quarters set the pattern for the game. But, fine, 18 for the game in full-on scramble mode. Well, well below par, especially considering they had beaten this team 26-7 in the regular season.

If Peyton Manning's 290-yard stat line satisfies you that he didn't play poorly in that game, we'll just have to agree with me being right and you being wrong.

What difference does the mode make? heck, coming through like that in the fourth quarter is usually considered a good thing, not a failure.

Also, we're back to blaming Manning for his kicker choking with the game on the line.

Let's put it this way:

THROUGH THREE QUARTERS
Roethlisberger 14-22, 197, 2 TDs, 1 INT
Manning 13-25, 130, 0 TDs, 0 INT

Manning outgained Roethlisberger 160 yards to zero in the fourth quarter. Do you think maybe it's more likely a quarterback will pile up passing stats when his team is trailing by three scores than leading by three scores?

But, I know. It's the kicker's fault. It's the safety's fault that Manning had to play overtime Saturday. It's the Rules Committee's fault that the Patriots picked him off four times. It's somebody else's fault that he threw three straight incomplete passes from the 7-yard line in that loss to the Chargers in January 2008. It's Reggie Wayne's fault that Wayne couldn't get open in January 2011 -- that guy must have nothing left, right?

Peyton Manning has the worst forking luck.

Again with the cherry picking. The entire game counts. Normally, leading a big comeback is a positive thing. Apparently, that only changes when Manning is the guy doing it. If Vanderjagt makes that field goal and the Colts go on to win, there is no question people are talking about that as a great performance by Manning. But something out of his control changed how that game was remembered.

So yes, he has had some bad luck along the way. The "idiot kicker" choking at the worst possible time certainly qualifies.

 

[Bubbler]

Not going to read the entire thread, but if it hasn't been mentioned, Manning's biggest Achilles heel in some of these playoff losses was his inability to deal with an aggressive 3-4 defense as he did against Pittsburgh and San Diego. In that period, 3-4 defense were to Manning as crucifixes are to vampires.

 

[exmediahack]

The temperature factor with Manning has been my point since Week 2.

Unless you play in a dome, you have to win in the cold in January. That's what surprised me about Manning signing with Denver. They had a schedule "softer than puppy shirt" for the last two months, artificially boosting their W-L. His division had two dead coaches walking and the Raiders. Baltimore had to battle the Bengals and Steelers.

Manning is a first year HOF. No doubt. Yet he also has a history of under performing in the playoffs. I don't think he would catch as much crap if he wasn't the face of NFL commercials. (Rodgers is getting dangerously close to this point)

My hope for 2013. A new Murano commercial where Manning says: "Papa Bear, hut hut!" and Ray Lewis' voice comes on.

 

[BTExpress]

And yet so many of those guys end up with winning records and last-minute drives and not throwing interceptions in overtime and whatnot. Strange luck.

You're being sarcastic, of course, but . . .

Immaculate reception = playoff victory for Bradshaw.

The Fumble = playoff victory for Elway

Tuck play = playoff victory (and eventual SB) for Brady

Roethisberger makes a tackle while on the ground, preventing Nick Harper from returning Jerome Bettis' fumble 99 yards for a touchdown. Goodbye victory, hello Vanderjagt.

It's an oblong ball. It bounces funny. No one has found Vanderjagt's kick yet.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Elway's team was losing to the likes of the Giants, Redskins and 49ers. Those were vastly superior teams. Not even the same game.

Manning's teams lose to teams that they easily outpace, both in overall record and head-to-head matchup, in the regular season.

Oh, really?

Elway's sub-200-yard playoff games came against:

Seahawks
Steelers
49ers
Bills
Chiefs
Packers
Dolphins
Jets

And he didn't lose 'em all. That's kind of my point.

His team was able to beat the Patriots despite a 13-of-32, 2 INT performance.
His team was able to beat the Jets despite a 13-of-34, 173-yard performance.

My point, made about 20 pages ago, is that ALL quarterbacks underperform in the playoffs vis a vis the regular season. Every one of them (well, except Flacco, it seems). Many on this board seem to think Manning is somehow unique in this regard.

Is there a difference between simply "underperforming" and "making the key mistake"?

"normal QB" vs. "Favre/Manning", we'll call it.

 

[YGBFKM]

The only reason the Roethlisberger and Vanderjagt plays mattered so much is because Manning underachieved that entire game. If Hall of Fame quarterback does his part, it doesn't get to that. Manning has gone a long way toward creating his own bad luck.

He's considered one of the best to ever play. When someone is that good at a thing over a long period of time, you expect them to be good at that thing when it matters most more often than not.

He has eight one-and-dones in the playoffs. Certainly not all his fault. But that's TWICE as many as any other quarterback in playoff history. When you're the best player on your team, you don't get a pass for a sustained pattern of failure.