NHL 2013: Off-Season Running Thread

[Beef03]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

Anybody who has about 45 minutes to kill, came across cool look back at expansion in hockey on the youtubes

 

[Mark2010]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

What does it say about a league that will be more successful in Winnipeg or Saskatoon than in Phoenix or Atlanta?

It says the league is in trouble.

 

[JR]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

What does it say about a league that will be more successful in Winnipeg or Saskatoon than in Phoenix or Atlanta?

It says the league is in trouble.

Seriously?

It says that the league can be successful where people actually care about hockey. Atlanta has forked up NHL franchises TWICE and Phoenix has been a disaster in both hockey and financial terms

No one in those markets give a shirt about hockey. What part of that don't you understand?

Yes, more teams in Canada mean diddly for US television but with all due respect, who gives a shirt? NBC never put any money on the table for rights and CBC, TSN and Sportsnet contribute more rights dollars than any US broadcaster.

The league needs more Canada, not less. Last thing the NHL needs is franchises in hockey backwaters like Kansas City, Oklahoma City and Seattle.

 

[JR]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

Why would the NHL consider ANY additional US market when there are probably three in Canada that would be way more profitable?

Quebec City, another one in the GTA and heck, even the Maritimes or Saskatchewan.

The Jets have shown that with the right ownership, even a heck hole like Winnipeg can be profitable .

I have a couple questions about Winnipeg:

1. What do there total television contracts add up to in comparison to larger markets in Canada and the US?

2. Do they have an affluent enough business community to buy up a bunch of high priced tickets to drive game revenue up?

When I look at the smaller Canadian markets it reminds me of the soon to be ex Sacramento Kings. Sacramento, even with a metropolitan population of about 2M, does not have enough affluent citizens to buy those luxury seats. Sacramento, as a government town does not have much of a corporate base, but it is still a lot larger than any potential Canadian expansion market that currently does not have a team. And I can't believe the Leafs or Canadians would allow a team in their market.

I am skeptical of any smaller market supporting a team over the long term in today's economic time. When the initial enthusiasm wears off and the team hits a rough patch is there enough broadcasting and corporate revenue to keep the team competitive? I offer a couple of MLB teams such as Kansas City as further evidence of the difficulties of competing in a smaller market.

Lancey. Good questions.

1) I don't have actual figures about TV revenue for Winnipeg--could probably dig them up-- but TSN and True Sports who own the team have a ten year deal to broadcast all their games on both TV & radio. Here's a link to a story on the deal.

http://thehockeywriters.com/winnipeg-jets-snag-groundbreaking-regional-tv-deal-with-tsn/

True North Sports & Entertainment, in conjunction with Bell Media, are pleased to announce today they have entered into a 10-year agreement awarding the regional television broadcast rights for the Winnipeg Jets to TSN, and the radio broadcast rights for the hockey club to Sports Radio 1290," TSN reported via tsn.ca.

"As part of the agreement,TSNwill broadcast more than 60 regional regular season and pre-season games each season to fans in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Nunavut, the Northwest Territories and parts of Northwestern Ontario on the new specialty channel "TSNJets" – a part-time television service dedicated to Jets games and launching September 20."

2) Can't give you a list of corporate sponsors but there are some major ones, including Toyota Canada.

What's most important is that True North Sports owns the rink and has 100% of the revenue streams from all hockey and non-hockey related events like rock concerts and yes, tractor pulls.

Here's a pretty good article on the business side

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/new-jets-nothing-like-the-old-jets-136178828.html

Not only does True North own the concessions that sell premium-priced beer, hotdogs and pizza -- in partnership with Centreplate, which runs the food and beverage operation -- but it owns the Tim Horton's franchises in the MTS Centre, too.
So, the next time you're sipping on your double-double or munching on a box of Timbits at a game, remember your taste buds and stomach are helping True North field your team

It's a franchise founded on solid business principles.

The big question---as you pointed out---is whether support will continue even if the team doesn't do well.
Being a Canadian I think the answer is yes.

Sorry for the longwinded post

 

[Beef03]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

What does it say about a league that will be more successful in Winnipeg or Saskatoon than in Phoenix or Atlanta?

It says the league is in trouble.

What the fork do you have against Canada and its sports scene? You clearly have little to no knowledge of it.

 

[Liut]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

I would cut Thrashers fans a whole lot of slack in regard to the second failure in Atlanta. The last ownership group ripped it up and the goal was sell, sell, sell.

Beef, I can't get my computer to play that video you posted. Or at least I'm not waiting for my machine to take two hours to pull it up. Can you give me a synopsis? Particularly wondering if the WHL's threat of expanded upward to challenge the NHL is mentioned. Thanks.

 

[heyabbott]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

What does it say about a league that will be more successful in Winnipeg or Saskatoon than in Phoenix or Atlanta?

It says the league is in trouble.

every non handicapped male fan of the NFL, MLB and NBA have at some point in their lives picked up a football, baseball and basketball and played the sport. It might have been on the playground, little league, rec or high school but they've played the game. I doubt that 10% of the males in Phoenix and Atlanta have touched a puck on ice, but 90%of Canadian males have.

 

[Beef03]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

Liut, unfortunately as far as the talk of WHA's expansion is concerned, themost that's mentioned is the threat of a rival league getting in on TV contract money. They also talk about the WHA's influence as to why they put a team on Long Island, Atlanta, KC and Washington. And then of course when they swallowed up the four teams from the WHA. What was interesting to me was how some of those original expansion teams came together on the fly, particularly Philadelphia, LA and Oakland. It is an NHL Network production so I'm not overly surprised they didn't dwell on the WHA too much.

 

[Liut]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

Liut, unfortunately as far as the talk of WHA's expansion is concerned, themost that's mentioned is the threat of a rival league getting in on TV contract money. They also talk about the WHA's influence as to why they put a team on Long Island, Atlanta, KC and Washington. And then of course when they swallowed up the four teams from the WHA. What was interesting to me was how some of those original expansion teams came together on the fly, particularly Philadelphia, LA and Oakland. It is an NHL Network production so I'm not overly surprised they didn't dwell on the WHA too much.

Sounds like a segment of "A Day That Changed the Game" that airs every once and a while on NHL Network.

Actually, I was referencing earlier the 1960s Western Hockey League, which ties in to your mention of Seattle and Portland. In "Net Worth," the authors claimed the WHL was eyeing places like Quebec City, St. Louis, Pittsburgh and Baltimore to create a second major hockey league.

 

[Mark2010]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

What does it say about a league that will be more successful in Winnipeg or Saskatoon than in Phoenix or Atlanta?

It says the league is in trouble.

What the fork do you have against Canada and its sports scene? You clearly have little to no knowledge of it.

Beef, chill, mate. Anyone who knows me knows I have absolutely nothing against Canada or its sports scene. Lived there long enough to know.

What I do know is that you can't have 1/3 or 1/2 your teams there and expect to maintain an interest in the U.S. I already hear from others too often the league is "foreign", whatever that's supposed to mean. Half my colleagues couldn't find Saskatoon -- or Edmonton, for that matter --- on a map. (funniest line ever: "The Thrashers are moving to Winnipeg? Is that in Alaska?")

Now I understand that in terms of player personnel and whatever, a team in Toronto or Calgary doesn't operate much differently than one in Boston or Minnesota. Big markets are big markets and small/medium markets are small/medium markets, whatever flag they may fly.

But, if you aspire to be a player on the world sports stage, you have to have your base in the U.S. It's where the money is. I understand a lot of people hate Americans for a lot different things. But the reality is the entire global financial, political, military and sports markets revolve around the U.S.

Could Canada support more than 7 NHL teams? Sure. Could the NHL live with more than that? No. Not if it wants to aspire to be a "major" North American sports league.

Already, more and more newspapers and broadcast entities in non-NHL markets almost ignore the league, news, game reports, stats, etc. Yet, as a desk editor, I'm compelled to run six solid months of bleeping Major League Baseball, every stinkin' day? And the bleeping NBA?

Is that what the league wants, to fade into irrelevance, somewhere behind the MLS and WNBA?

Look, if you want to abandon the pursuit of being a major league in the US and expand in Canada to play before larger audiences, fine. But I never sensed that was the path the league was pursuing.

 

[Beef03]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

Liut, unfortunately as far as the talk of WHA's expansion is concerned, themost that's mentioned is the threat of a rival league getting in on TV contract money. They also talk about the WHA's influence as to why they put a team on Long Island, Atlanta, KC and Washington. And then of course when they swallowed up the four teams from the WHA. What was interesting to me was how some of those original expansion teams came together on the fly, particularly Philadelphia, LA and Oakland. It is an NHL Network production so I'm not overly surprised they didn't dwell on the WHA too much.

Sounds like a segment of "A Day That Changed the Game" that airs every once and a while on NHL Network.

Actually, I was referencing earlier the 1960s Western Hockey League, which ties in to your mention of Seattle and Portland. In "Net Worth," the authors claimed the WHL was eyeing places like Quebec City, St. Louis, Pittsburgh and Baltimore to create a second major hockey league.

That would be the segment. The rival league in the early 1960s they're referenceing could be the WHL, they just said a "rival league out west," I figured at the time it was the talk of the WHA because of the NHL sticking two teams in Califorina and the WHA's start up a few years later. They didn't talk about Seattle or Portland at all in the show. They did mention that the NHL was considering expanding to Baltimore originally.

 

[Beef03]

Re: NHL 2012: Off-Season Running Thread

What does it say about a league that will be more successful in Winnipeg or Saskatoon than in Phoenix or Atlanta?

It says the league is in trouble.

What the fork do you have against Canada and its sports scene? You clearly have little to no knowledge of it.

Beef, chill, mate. Anyone who knows me knows I have absolutely nothing against Canada or its sports scene. Lived there long enough to know.

What I do know is that you can't have 1/3 or 1/2 your teams there and expect to maintain an interest in the U.S. I already hear from others too often the league is "foreign", whatever that's supposed to mean. Half my colleagues couldn't find Saskatoon -- or Edmonton, for that matter --- on a map. (funniest line ever: "The Thrashers are moving to Winnipeg? Is that in Alaska?")

Now I understand that in terms of player personnel and whatever, a team in Toronto or Calgary doesn't operate much differently than one in Boston or Minnesota. Big markets are big markets and small/medium markets are small/medium markets, whatever flag they may fly.

But, if you aspire to be a player on the world sports stage, you have to have your base in the U.S. It's where the money is. I understand a lot of people hate Americans for a lot different things. But the reality is the entire global financial, political, military and sports markets revolve around the U.S.

Could Canada support more than 7 NHL teams? Sure. Could the NHL live with more than that? No. Not if it wants to aspire to be a "major" North American sports league.

Already, more and more newspapers and broadcast entities in non-NHL markets almost ignore the league, news, game reports, stats, etc. Yet, as a desk editor, I'm compelled to run six solid months of bleeping Major League Baseball, every stinkin' day? And the bleeping NBA?

Is that what the league wants, to fade into irrelevance, somewhere behind the MLS and WNBA?

Look, if you want to abandon the pursuit of being a major league in the US and expand in Canada to play before larger audiences, fine. But I never sensed that was the path the league was pursuing.

Yet last year the NHL recorded a record $3.28 Bilion in revenue and signed a 10 year, $2 Billion TV contract with NBC that was supposed to start this year. Before that, the league was basically paying for NBC to broadcast games. This is after the move from Atlanta to Winnipeg. The game is growing, despite leaving blackhole markets behind. No one is arguing for 15 teams to be in Canada. However when they're losing $25 million a year with a 100+ point team in Phoenix and they can instead have far more financial success in a place like Quebec where people actually play and love the game, or sticking another team in Southern Ontario, then yes, you're stupid if you don't make the move. Saskatoon is not getting a team, not now, likely not ever.

And heads up Calgary and Edmonton are roughly the same sized market. Because those you associate with are either ignorant of Canada or too lazy to look at a map to find where Winnipeg is does not mean Canada is irrelevant when it comes to North American sports, especially when it comes to hockey.