Ron Paul: Man of Integrity

[Buck]

1. Blitzer asked a question about a hypothetical man dying because he chose not be insured. No one cheered death. It was a hypothetical.

B. Neither Paul or anybody can say people or groups shouldn't provide money to cover expenses who chose not to be insured. The question was whether the state should serve that function.

 

[93Devil]

1. Blitzer asked a question about a hypothetical man dying because he chose not be insured. No one cheered death. It was a hypothetical.

B. Neither Paul or anybody can say people or groups shouldn't provide money to cover expenses who chose not to be insured. The question was whether the state should serve that function.

People need an affordable option. That has been taken away over the past 20 years.

 

[heyabbott]

Dude practices what he preaches. Let 'em die if they gambled on no health insurance and lost. We all have the freedom to do that. Even our campaign managers.

http://gawker.com/5840024/ron-pauls-campaign-manager-died-of-pneumonia-penniless-and-uninsured

I've seen this story circulated before.

1) There's no connection between the man's death and his lack of health insurance. He clearly received medical care.

2) I keep waiting for someone to ask Paul if he donated to the family's charity to pay for the medical bills.

From the article cited by the OP:
*The Kansas City Star quoted his sister at the time as saying that a "a pre-existing condition made the premiums too expensive."

So much here. Insurance wasn't available, there's no policy that allows/requires insurance companies to spread the risk. Ron Paul comes off as a man of his convictions, but without a Christian soul and an essence of humanitarianism. No mention that Obama-care would have required he be covered.

 

[RickStain]

Whether or not insurance was available, the man received medical care.

 

[Ace]

If you cheer for uninsured cheapskates dying, you should also support granny death squads.

A drain on the system is a drain on the system. Don't be a hypocrite!

 

[Stitch]

Spaghetti dinners for everyone. That's how we solve the problem of paying for health care.

 

[Buck]

Has the American population dwindled due to lack of public health care?

 

[Azrael]

Has the American population dwindled due to lack of public health care?

We rank 36th worldwide in life expectancy.

46th in infant mortality.

Don't gloat.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Has the American population dwindled due to lack of public health care?

We rank 36th worldwide in life expectancy.

46th in infant mortality.

Don't gloat.

I love when people pull out those UN infant mortality rate figures.

Of course, not every country calculates the figures the same way, and in fact, a bunch of countries, such as Canada and Germany just don't count premature babies as living children, so they don't count toward the statistic. The U.S. counts every birth.

When you quote statistics, it really pays to question the methadology of those stats.

You really think the standard of health care the average Slovenian gets is better than the standard of health care of the average American? If you decide that by UN infant mortality rates, it's true.

 

[The Big Ragu]

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/060924/2healy.htm

 

[Azrael]

Has the American population dwindled due to lack of public health care?

We rank 36th worldwide in life expectancy.

46th in infant mortality.

Don't gloat.

I love when people pull out those UN infant mortality rate figures.

Of course, not every country calculates the figures the same way, and in fact, a bunch of countries, such as Canada and Germany just don't count premature babies as living children, so they don't count toward the statistic. The U.S. counts every birth.

When you quote statistics, it really pays to question the methadology of those stats.

You really think the standard of health care the average Slovenian gets is better than the standard of health care of the average American? If you decide that by UN infant mortality rates, it's true.

That's why I posted them along with the life expectancy rates. Taken together, they remind folks that we don't have the market cornered on good medicine.

And these are from the CIA Factbook.

And apparently our life expectancy has now slipped to 50th. Below that of Bosnia.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html#top

 

[The Big Ragu]

Has the American population dwindled due to lack of public health care?

We rank 36th worldwide in life expectancy.

46th in infant mortality.

Don't gloat.

I love when people pull out those UN infant mortality rate figures.

Of course, not every country calculates the figures the same way, and in fact, a bunch of countries, such as Canada and Germany just don't count premature babies as living children, so they don't count toward the statistic. The U.S. counts every birth.

When you quote statistics, it really pays to question the methadology of those stats.

You really think the standard of health care the average Slovenian gets is better than the standard of health care of the average American? If you decide that by UN infant mortality rates, it's true.

That's why I posted them along with the life expectancy rates. Taken together, they remind folks that we don't have the market cornered on good medicine.

And these are from the CIA Factbook.

And apparently our life expectancy has now slipped to 50th. Below that of Bosnia.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html#top

The CIA Factbook just regurgitates the UN rankings.

Our infant mortality rates are the same as EVERY developed country.

From that article I just linked to:

Infant mortality in developed countries is not about healthy babies dying of treatable conditions as in the past. Most of the infants we lose today are born critically ill, and 40 percent die within the first day of life. The major causes are low birth weight and prematurity, and congenital malformations. As Nicholas Eberstadt, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, points out, Norway, which has one of the lowest infant mortality rates, shows no better infant survival than the United States when you factor in weight at birth.

And our life expectancy numbers have nothing to do with subpar health care, but everything to do with things like gun violence.

I am not saying "we have the market cornered on good medicine," as you put it, but we're not a failure, and in fact we are a world leader in many areas. Cancer treatment innovation, and cancer care, come to mind in particular.

This is just an anecdotal vignette, so take it for what it is worth, but I have a sibling who specializes in a very narrow area of medicine and is considered an expert on a disease that isn't rare, but isn't particularly common. There are other doctors who can treat the disease, but most of them are American. It's unbelievable how many of my siblings patients fly in from other countries that supposedly have superior health care systems, because they can't get what they need at home.

Health care is expensive. We can extend people's lives, but it has come at costs that overwhelm economies. There isn't a country managing to make coverage universal without the trade offs of high taxation (or large amounts of debt), rationing and price ceilings, which create shortages. We don't have that kind of system. It means 40 or 50 million people here have no coverage, which is unfortunate. The benefit our system has, that most of the world has sacrificed, is that we have the country that is innovating and doing research and we are responsible for most of the new medical technologies and drugs. Our standard of overall care certainly benefits from it relative to most of the world, even if that same standard of care suffers from the inequalities inherent in it being more market driven.