Running 2006 World Series Of Poker Thread

[spinning27]

That's exactly right. The flop came down with two diamonds, so he had a big made hand and was trying to push out the draws. The problem is, as you said, these guys will not be pushed off their draws ... and sometimes they make them, as this donk did on the river. It's like playing with my mother-in-law who insists she wins more hands with 7-2 than paint.  Bottom line is, Matusow should probably know better at this point.

One of the reasons for this, IMO, is that straight draws and flush draws seem to hit more often online than in real games. Am I crazy, or do you guys notice the same thing?

 

[pallister]

Playing online today, I was just thinking it was weird I kept losing to flushes and straights on the river. To guys who had no business still being in the hand with only a draw.

 

[Lester Bangs]

That's exactly right. The flop came down with two diamonds, so he had a big made hand and was trying to push out the draws. The problem is, as you said, these guys will not be pushed off their draws ... and sometimes they make them, as this donk did on the river. It's like playing with my mother-in-law who insists she wins more hands with 7-2 than paint.  Bottom line is, Matusow should probably know better at this point.

One of the reasons for this, IMO, is that straight draws and flush draws seem to hit more often online than in real games.  Am I crazy, or do you guys notice the same thing?

You're correct, but probably only because you play roughly twice as many hands.

BTW, if Matusow value bets his set, the donk might go along, the diamond doesn't hit on the turn, Mouth bets again and the guy might not be in such a hurry to stick around when it's one-card and done.  Then again, here I am second-guessing Matusow, who -- to quote SNL's Sinatra -- has chunks of guys like me in his stool.

 

[doubledown68]

If you have a set against four to the flush, aren't you still like a 70-30 favorite? Why would Matusow or anybody else lay that down if that's the correct read? The potholes like this you have to dodge have gone up exponentially, but you're not long for any poker game if you lay that down.

 

[Lester Bangs]

Agreed, but that's a dangerous board and I would rather wait to make a stand when there's less chance of my trips getting cracked.

 

[Cape_Fear]

That's exactly right. The flop came down with two diamonds, so he had a big made hand and was trying to push out the draws. The problem is, as you said, these guys will not be pushed off their draws ... and sometimes they make them, as this donk did on the river. It's like playing with my mother-in-law who insists she wins more hands with 7-2 than paint.  Bottom line is, Matusow should probably know better at this point.

One of the reasons for this, IMO, is that straight draws and flush draws seem to hit more often online than in real games.  Am I crazy, or do you guys notice the same thing?

I agree with Lester that you play twice as many hands, but there are also twice as many donks hanging around with their draws so you get to the river more often against them. It's not as easy to push them out.

 

[spinning27]

That's exactly right. The flop came down with two diamonds, so he had a big made hand and was trying to push out the draws. The problem is, as you said, these guys will not be pushed off their draws ... and sometimes they make them, as this donk did on the river. It's like playing with my mother-in-law who insists she wins more hands with 7-2 than paint.  Bottom line is, Matusow should probably know better at this point.

One of the reasons for this, IMO, is that straight draws and flush draws seem to hit more often online than in real games.  Am I crazy, or do you guys notice the same thing?

I agree with Lester that you play twice as many hands, but there are also twice as many donks hanging around with their draws so you get to the river more often against them. It's not as easy to push them out.

It's even worse than that. I was playing at the final table of a $15 sit-and-go, I'm short-stacked but pick up aces. I raise, guy calls. The flop comes out, I get all my money in, guy calls me with QJ. Mind you, he had absolutely no flush or straight draws and the flop missed him completely. Turn: Q. River: J. Me: Busted.

After that, my days of playing cheap buy-in tournaments like that were over.

 

[Lester Bangs]

It's even worse than that.  I was playing at the final table of a $15 sit-and-go, I'm short-stacked but pick up aces.  I raise, guy calls.  The flop comes out, I get all my money in, guy calls me with QJ.  Mind you, he had absolutely no flush or straight draws and the flop missed him completely.  Turn: Q.  River: J.  Me: Busted.

After that, my days of playing cheap buy-in tournaments like that were over. 

I go back and forth on this. It's a cheap buy-in, so why wouldn't they play like forking dolts? But I always try to play smart, no matter the situation ... so I find myself getting indignant a lot. Ultimately, getting mad at some of these tools is like me getting pissed at my 2-year-old. Does nothing but raise my (already elevated) blood pressure.

Happens a lot playing in Vegas, too. Your local card rooms are usually populated by guys who actually know the game. Vegas, it's tourists who sit there and just call down everything, which is forking great until they catch something ... and then you find yourself wanting to come over the table.

 

[spinning27]

It's even worse than that.  I was playing at the final table of a $15 sit-and-go, I'm short-stacked but pick up aces.  I raise, guy calls.  The flop comes out, I get all my money in, guy calls me with QJ.  Mind you, he had absolutely no flush or straight draws and the flop missed him completely.  Turn: Q.  River: J.  Me: Busted.

After that, my days of playing cheap buy-in tournaments like that were over. 

I go back and forth on this. It's a cheap buy-in, so why wouldn't they play like forking dolts? But I always try to play smart, no matter the situation ... so I find myself getting indignant a lot. Ultimately, getting mad at some of these tools is like me getting pissed at my 2-year-old. Does nothing but raise my (already elevated) blood pressure.

Happens a lot playing in Vegas, too. Your local card rooms are usually populated by guys who actually know the game. Vegas, it's tourists who sit there and just call down everything, which is forking great until they catch something ... and then you find yourself wanting to come over the table.

Yeah, that's a good point. When I want to play, I go to my local card room and buy into a tournament for $60 or $80. There are some donkeys, but most of them are pretty good players.....well, except for this one guy who I raised all-in holding pocket jacks. He calls with pocket 8's ... and hits his 8 on the flop. Fortunately, I was able to recoup the money two hands later when I hit two pair on the flop and got a guy to double me up when I went all-in on the river.

 

[Johnsonville]

now this is a sick beat

--

Thorsson Eliminates Another
William Thorsson raises to $700 from the cut off and the button re-raises to $1,200. The small blind makes a third raises to $3,500. Thorsson re-raises $7,000 more and the small blind calls. The flop comes A22 and the small blind checks and Thorsson moves all-in for $100,000. The small blind makes the call after 2 minutes of deliberation and shows K-K. Thorsson taps the table and says "Wow," and sheepishly shows his 75. The turn is a 3 and the river a 4 giving Thorsson the wheel. Thorsson now sits with $125,000.

 

[spinning27]

now this is a sick beat

--

Thorsson Eliminates Another
William Thorsson raises to $700 from the cut off and the button re-raises to $1,200. The small blind makes a third raises to $3,500. Thorsson re-raises $7,000 more and the small blind calls.  The flop comes A22 and the small blind checks and Thorsson moves all-in for $100,000.  The small blind makes the call after 2 minutes of deliberation and shows K-K.  Thorsson taps the table and says "Wow," and sheepishly shows his 75.  The turn is a 3 and the river a 4 giving Thorsson the wheel.  Thorsson now sits with $125,000.

That is tough, but...Thorsson basically did everything right as far as a bluff.  He raised and re-raised, and then the Ace comes out on the flop and he pushes in all his chips.  If I'm sitting there holding KK I give up the hand.  Did this guy call because he didn't think Thorsson had an ace?  Doubtful.  More likely, he's some donkey who couldn't conceive of getting away from his pocket kings regardless of what came out on the flop.

Update: Phil Laak, Mark Seif and Steve Dannenmann are out.

 

[spinning27]

Update: Erick Lindgren, Erik Seidel and Sean Sheikhan all out today.

Chip Reese, Cyndy Violette and Robert Williamson are close to elimination.

Man, that's a bunch of heavy hitters that haven't made it past Day 1.