Should Pete Rose be reinstated?

[dooley_womack1]

I don't know if it does. And it doesn't matter. All that matters to me is that as a player, Pete Rose has Hall of Fame stats. His betting, if any took place as a player, didn't buy him hits, and he had the Hall of Fame stats long before that anyway. It shouldn't at all matter that he was a scoundrel; Hall is full of those, from the violent racist Ty Cobb to the greenie guzzler Willie Mays. Baseball's puritanism and lack of proportion is galling sometimes. Paul Hornung bets on NFL games and gets suspended for a year, then is let back in and remains one of the faces of the league for decades. And Mantle and Mays gets thrashed for representing a perfectly legal casino?

And on this topic, I've said my piece; it's getting circular now.

 

[Starman]

Paul Hornung has nothing to do with the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Pete Rose and Joe Jackson are not in the HOF because they violated the one rule of organized baseball which is printed in bright black ink on the wall of every clubhouse.

That's why.

The end.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

I don't know if it does. And it doesn't matter. All that matters to me is that as a player, Pete Rose has Hall of Fame stats. His betting, if any took place as a player, didn't buy him hits, and he had the Hall of Fame stats long before that anyway. It shouldn't at all matter that he was a scoundrel; Hall is full of those, from the violent racist Ty Cobb to the greenie guzzler Willie Mays. Baseball's puritanism and lack of proportion is galling sometimes. Paul Hornung bets on NFL games and gets suspended for a year, then is let back in and remains one of the faces of the league for decades. And Mantle and Mays gets thrashed for representing a perfectly legal casino?

And on this topic, I've said my piece; it's getting circular now.

You're a manager, and you're betting. You control the bullpen. You bet the Reds six nights in a row, burning your pen. When it's a smoking ruin, you don't bet, the next night. And the guy who handles your action knows exactly where you're coming from.

He's a bum. He's always been white trash. By conducting himself as he did, he disrespected the game. And he'll never, ever get in. Next.

 

[beanpole]

Even if someone had ironclad evidence that Rose never manipulated games as a manager to help his bets, it wouldn't matter. I agree with the poster who said he has HOF stats, but it's completely his own fault that he will never get in.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

They should put Pete Rose in the HoF the day after he dies.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

He knows he screwed up, but he still thinks he should get a pass.

I know precisely where he can stick that pass.

 

[BTExpress]

He knows he screwed up, but he still thinks he should get a pass.

He knows a lot of people screw up, and that about 98.7% of them see their punishment end at some point in their lives --- whether it's bankruptcy coming off your record, or a release from jail, or a suspension from a league.

Pete Rose and Joe Jackson are not in the HOF because they violated the one rule of organized baseball which is printed in bright black ink on the wall of every clubhouse.

Of course, with it printed in black ink that "If you do not pay off this loan, we take your house," I'm sure Starman is in the banks' corner when it comes to all these foreclosures and bad loans. Or he has never violated a sign printed in black ink that says "Speed Limit 65" or "No Loitering."

The "rule" either means something 100 percent of the time, or it doesn't. And we all know it doesn't. So to make your argument solely on "THE RULE SAYS . . . " is just blatant cherry-picking.

Posts like this --- "He's a bum. He's always been white trash." --- just show that with some people here it's personal. Never mind that bums and white trash litter the Hall.

It would be better to just say what you really think: "I do not like Rose and his arrogance and his attitude, and I take some bizarre comfort in seeing him punished because in some tiny way it seems to raise baseball to a higher level, and I kind of like that, even though we all know it's populated by scoundrels. It's even better that Rose repeatedly lied, because this gives me added ammunition and the chance to appear like I actually could be somewhat objective on this issue ("If he had just spoken the truth from the start . . ." ), even though my opinion has been hardened in cement for 25 years."

 

[Steak Snabler]

Also, I think I remember reading that the "no gambling" rule wasn't "printed in bright black ink on the wall of every clubhouse" until after the Black Sox scandal.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Also, I think I remember reading that the "no gambling" rule wasn't "printed in bright black ink on the wall of every clubhouse" until after the Black Sox scandal.

There were "no betting" stencils on the walls of multiple major-league ballparks years before 1919, and I'm pretty sure Buck W. could and would concur.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

He knows he screwed up, but he still thinks he should get a pass.

He knows a lot of people screw up, and that about 98.7% of them see their punishment end at some point in their lives --- whether it's bankruptcy coming off your record, or a release from jail, or a suspension from a league.

Pete Rose and Joe Jackson are not in the HOF because they violated the one rule of organized baseball which is printed in bright black ink on the wall of every clubhouse.

Of course, with it printed in black ink that "If you do not pay off this loan, we take your house," I'm sure Starman is in the banks' corner when it comes to all these foreclosures and bad loans. Or he has never violated a sign printed in black ink that says "Speed Limit 65" or "No Loitering."

The "rule" either means something 100 percent of the time, or it doesn't. And we all know it doesn't. So to make your argument solely on "THE RULE SAYS . . . " is just blatant cherry-picking.

Posts like this --- "He's a bum. He's always been white trash." --- just show that with some people here it's personal. Never mind that bums and white trash litter the Hall.

Doesn't change the fact that he's always been a lying, self-serving sack of shirt. A tremendously-useful player whose sense of urgency and energy allowed him to transcend some physical limitations . . . but he is what he is, and the facts aren't going away.
You let him in, and the Hall has no standards. None.

 

[Joe Williams]

There's no serious or intelligent debate that Rose's playing career was HOF worthy.

It's too bad that he's not in, but it's also his own damn fault.

And he's probably better off not being in anyway -- the mere fact of his not being in becomes "newsworthy" once or twice a year, while meanwhile players of his generation with equal or superior credentials (Clemente, Aaron, Frank Robinson for instance) are rarely mentioned.

heck, people talk and think a lot more about Joe Jackson than they do about Tris Speaker (probably a better player).

Always thought that about other guys who didn't get in. We heard a lot more about Blyleven in those years he missed than we'll hear going forward. Same now with Ron Santo. Tris Speaker, classic example.

Figure timing screwed Rose too. Had the gambling stuff come out after he already had been inducted, I don't think they would have pulled his plaque off the wall and removed him from the Hall. Probably would have gotten treatment similar to O.J. in Canton.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

There's no serious or intelligent debate that Rose's playing career was HOF worthy.

It's too bad that he's not in, but it's also his own damn fault.

And he's probably better off not being in anyway -- the mere fact of his not being in becomes "newsworthy" once or twice a year, while meanwhile players of his generation with equal or superior credentials (Clemente, Aaron, Frank Robinson for instance) are rarely mentioned.

heck, people talk and think a lot more about Joe Jackson than they do about Tris Speaker (probably a better player).

Always thought that about other guys who didn't get in. We heard a lot more about Blyleven in those years he missed than we'll hear going forward. Same now with Ron Santo. Tris Speaker, classic example.

Figure timing screwed Rose too. Had the gambling stuff come out after he already had been inducted, I don't think they would have pulled his plaque off the wall and removed him from the Hall. Probably would have gotten treatment similar to O.J. in Canton.

NFL could ring up some points for class if they offed OJ.