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The 2022 running NASCAR, IMSA & other racing things thread
- Thread starter 2muchcoffeeman
- Start date
2muchcoffeeman
Well-Known Member
Speedway Motorsports loves that stuff … because it helps to cover up how badly they messed up Bristol.
And Texas.
Tracks used sealer in the aughts. Richmond was one of them. I think Charlotte was another, when they weren't doing dumb shirt like "levigation." It seems like the PJ1 has fallen out of favor and the thing used now is resin.
Tracks used sealer in the aughts. Richmond was one of them. I think Charlotte was another, when they weren't doing dumb shirt like "levigation." It seems like the PJ1 has fallen out of favor and the thing used now is resin.
2muchcoffeeman
Well-Known Member
PJ1 TrackBite is synthetic resin.
maumann
Well-Known Member
It's a maddening cycle of "blame the other guy."
Goodyear, which has never made a bad tire in their entire racing history -- just ask them -- doesn't want to be blamed for a bunch of tire blowouts, so they bring the hardest hockey pucks they can. See the 2008 Brickyard 400 for details.
NASCAR wants every car to be identical but then can't figure out why they don't pass (it's the fricking front valance and splitter that's causing the aero push, you morons). Because the engines are evenly matched, about the only way to work inside the box is with suspension and steering.
So the magic elixir for SMI tracks has been to slap down PJ1, which is basically Karo syrup on steroids. It's what the NHRA uses to give dragsters grip at the starting line. That's great when you want to go straight.
However, it's got some serious issues on an oval. One, any spillage of oil (and particularly methanol) makes it slipperier than crap. Two, if you don't apply it exactly in the correct concentration across the entire surface, you wind up with patches of sticky and unsticky, which is what happened at Charlotte when Junior blasted them publicly. Three, once it's down, you can't wash it off.
Add in the fact that crew chiefs and engineers try aggressive tire pressure and camber/caster/toe settings in order to make these 3,500-pound shirtboxes turn. That causes tires to blow out and cars to crash, which makes Goodyear bring even harder hockey pucks to the next race.
If Goodyear went to the trouble of producing a decent product with some grip and NASCAR let air travel under the damn cars, the racing certainly couldn't be any worse than this weekend.
Goodyear, which has never made a bad tire in their entire racing history -- just ask them -- doesn't want to be blamed for a bunch of tire blowouts, so they bring the hardest hockey pucks they can. See the 2008 Brickyard 400 for details.
NASCAR wants every car to be identical but then can't figure out why they don't pass (it's the fricking front valance and splitter that's causing the aero push, you morons). Because the engines are evenly matched, about the only way to work inside the box is with suspension and steering.
So the magic elixir for SMI tracks has been to slap down PJ1, which is basically Karo syrup on steroids. It's what the NHRA uses to give dragsters grip at the starting line. That's great when you want to go straight.
However, it's got some serious issues on an oval. One, any spillage of oil (and particularly methanol) makes it slipperier than crap. Two, if you don't apply it exactly in the correct concentration across the entire surface, you wind up with patches of sticky and unsticky, which is what happened at Charlotte when Junior blasted them publicly. Three, once it's down, you can't wash it off.
Add in the fact that crew chiefs and engineers try aggressive tire pressure and camber/caster/toe settings in order to make these 3,500-pound shirtboxes turn. That causes tires to blow out and cars to crash, which makes Goodyear bring even harder hockey pucks to the next race.
If Goodyear went to the trouble of producing a decent product with some grip and NASCAR let air travel under the damn cars, the racing certainly couldn't be any worse than this weekend.
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maumann
Well-Known Member
Here's my two cents. Look at how much higher Ken Schrader's car rides, both in the front and especially in the back, than Alex Bowman's. And look at the height of that rear spoiler!
In an effort to suck the cars down (and avoid having to police ride heights), NASCAR has created a situation where the trailing car is almost completely out of the air flow of the leading one, which creates a huge drafting advantage. But when it tries to pass, the wash from around the first car makes it next to impossible for a car with equal power and aerodynamics to complete a pass.
It's like trying to pass an 18-wheeler on the Interstate at 70 mph, except the amount of air resistance doubles with every additional mile per hour. It can't be a lot of fun when you're at full throttle and you run out of downforce to make a pass.
Coupled with the lack of decent mechanical grip, it's a 180 mph parade.
IndyCar has a similar problem, particularly on ovals, because the "dirty air" from the lead car takes away front downforce for everyone in line, and it gets worse the farther back you are. I keep thinking there's got to be wickers or Gurney flaps they can place on the noses but I'm no engineer.
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Driftwood
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2018
- Messages
- 10,464
So what you are trying to tell me is when stock cars were based on manufacturer showroom models and the crew chiefs and engine builders could actually work on their cars to make them the best on any given Sunday, the racing was better?
Regan MacNeil
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2014
- Messages
- 11,636
I don't think that approach would work today. Which base models are remotely big enough to race? Would all the cars be Lincolns, Cadillacs and Buicks?
FileNotFound
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2003
- Messages
- 5,944
At Bathurst, Australia, in April, I saw a fantastic Trans Am race with barely modified Challengers, Mustangs and Camaros. Those would work for NASCAR too.
Sam Mills 51
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2003
- Messages
- 24,637
Well, yeah (but I'm not maumann).
No telling what kind of advantage Dale Inman, the Wood Brothers or Ernie Elliott got with their own vehicles. I'd love to know what they think of the modern sled. Some of the ploys they've attempted to get them to handle is ... interesting. Never mind what Chad Knaus would try these days.
The moment Bobby Allison's vehicle went into the catch fence at Talladega, the handling was never the same again. And the machines sucked to the ground are an attempt to avoid replicating more flights into catch fences. The one thing – one – that I agree with Ironhead is to get rid of the restrictor plates. If NASCAR is so worried about excessive speeds, then just stop going to Daytona and Talladega. Of course that's extreme and of course they'll never resort to that, but there it is.
No telling what kind of advantage Dale Inman, the Wood Brothers or Ernie Elliott got with their own vehicles. I'd love to know what they think of the modern sled. Some of the ploys they've attempted to get them to handle is ... interesting. Never mind what Chad Knaus would try these days.
The moment Bobby Allison's vehicle went into the catch fence at Talladega, the handling was never the same again. And the machines sucked to the ground are an attempt to avoid replicating more flights into catch fences. The one thing – one – that I agree with Ironhead is to get rid of the restrictor plates. If NASCAR is so worried about excessive speeds, then just stop going to Daytona and Talladega. Of course that's extreme and of course they'll never resort to that, but there it is.
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