The Soccer Thread (Version 7.0)

[Captain Obvious]

Wahl:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130323/usa-costa-rica-snow-clint-dempsey/

"In a game that will forever be known as The SnowClásico"

Uh . . . it will? By WHOM?

I've maintained that Central America is the most difficult area in the world to play a road WC qualifier.

A line of bull our fans and media continue to buy into, so we have excuses for losing that go beyond "We're not as good as we think we are."

And the U.S.' fans and players, as well as media, have done their share of complaining about it.

I don't recall hearing a lot of complaining. Getting hit with batteries and Ziploc bags of urine would surely suck, but most of what I've heard/read from players and fans indicate "That's how it is when you go on the road."

Where do you think is the most difficult region of the world for a World Cup qualifier? I mean, surely even you at least admit Central America is tough and intimidating. But I'd like to know where you think is the most difficult region.

Africa.

 

[Norrin Radd]

I don't recall hearing a lot of complaining.

http://www.bullshirt-button.com/images/BS_Button_Animated-normal.png

 

[kingcreole]

I don't recall hearing a lot of complaining.

http://www.bullshirt-button.com/images/BS_Button_Animated-normal.png

I think you missed the point. Bringing up the parties outside the hotels, choppy fields, debris from stands, etc., is supposed to be a part of World Cup qualifying. Players routinely say that you expect it to be difficult.

Any way, care to answer the question? I'm curious to know where you think some of the toughest regions of World Cup qualifying are.

 

[kingcreole]

Wahl:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130323/usa-costa-rica-snow-clint-dempsey/

"In a game that will forever be known as The SnowClásico"

Uh . . . it will? By WHOM?

I've maintained that Central America is the most difficult area in the world to play a road WC qualifier.

A line of bull our fans and media continue to buy into, so we have excuses for losing that go beyond "We're not as good as we think we are."

And the U.S.' fans and players, as well as media, have done their share of complaining about it.

I don't recall hearing a lot of complaining. Getting hit with batteries and Ziploc bags of urine would surely suck, but most of what I've heard/read from players and fans indicate "That's how it is when you go on the road."

Where do you think is the most difficult region of the world for a World Cup qualifier? I mean, surely even you at least admit Central America is tough and intimidating. But I'd like to know where you think is the most difficult region.

Africa.

Expand if you could. That's probably the one zone I'm least familiar with when it comes to World Cup qualifying. Northern Africa? Sub-Saharan?

 

[Norrin Radd]

Any way, care to answer the question? I'm curious to know where you think some of the toughest regions of World Cup qualifying are.

Oceania.

 

[kingcreole]

Any way, care to answer the question? I'm curious to know where you think some of the toughest regions of World Cup qualifying are.

Oceania.

Gotcha. You've been reading the Tongan media too much. Buying into the crap about how their team is treated when they play at American Samoa. Don't.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Any way, care to answer the question? I'm curious to know where you think some of the toughest regions of World Cup qualifying are.

Oceania.

Gotcha.

Anyone who still drinks the "CONCACAF is so TOUGH!!!!" Kool-Aid, isn't going to get a serious answer. There's really no point to it, is there? The U.S. loses on the road in CONCACAF because we are not as good as we want to think. We struggle at middling teams and say "Oh, it was the urine bombs!!!!"

The real root of the problem is that our national player pool has not produced another generation of the same quality as the one that was the up-and-comers of a decade ago. Bocanegra isn't in the new camp, and media and fans are up in arms. Why? because there's no one to replace our 33-year-old captain.

We have not produced another Donovan. There is no second Dempsey. We do have Bradley (who plays in Serie A, which has NO hostile environments, of course). But we struggle, and "Oh, well, CONCACAF is just so tough!"

In one breath, U.S. fans say "We dominate CONCACAF!!! Dos a cero! Dos a cero!!!!" in the next, "Oh, well . . . those darn urine bombs!"

Well, which is it?

How about: we are not as good as we think we are. So we get to act like we have such a tough qualifying road, when in actuality, it's because we are closer to the CONCACAF mean than we want to think we are.

 

[kingcreole]

Anyone who still drinks the "CONCACAF is so TOUGH!!!!" Kool-Aid, isn't going to get a serious answer. There's really no point to it, is there? The U.S. loses on the road in CONCACAF because we are not as good as we want to think. We struggle at middling teams and say "Oh, it was the urine bombs!!!!"

I have never proclaimed that the United States is a world power, on the brink of catching Spain, Germany and Brazil. The United States is a solid international team. On the right year, they could make a semifinal run in a World Cup, like South Korea or Turkey did. They haven't yet (at least since 1930 which doesn't really count).

Having said that, CONCACAF does have some pretty tough environments. Azteca is one of the toughest places in the world to play at. Costa Rica often plays well at home, and Costa Rica has been to a handful of World Cups. Honduras played OK at the last World Cup. The stadiums in most Central American nations are small (Mexico notwithstanding) and loud, and the teams are decent. In the same way Iowa State's Hilton Coliseum is a tough place to win at, yet Iowa State isn't a national power in basketball. A team like Duke, Kentucky, Kansas or Louisville would find winning at Hilton tough, even if Iowa State is a borderline NCAA Tournament team.

The real root of the problem is that our national player pool has not produced another generation of the same quality as the one that was the up-and-comers of a decade ago. Bocanegra isn't in the new camp, and media and fans are up in arms. Why? because there's no one to replace our 33-year-old captain.

We have not produced another Donovan. There is no second Dempsey. We do have Bradley (who plays in Serie A, which has NO hostile environments, of course). But we struggle, and "Oh, well, CONCACAF is just so tough!"

I have often said US Soccer problems run much deeper than the national team. It's going to take years to change things, and I'm not even sure it's possible.

CONCACAF road games are tough. Even Mexico struggles to win on the road. And don't forget - the fourth-place CONCACAF team from the last Hex nearly sent the team that finished fourth in 2010 home in the playoff round.

And we're not talking Serie A or club soccer. We're talking international.

In one breath, U.S. fans say "We dominate CONCACAF!!! Dos a cero! Dos a cero!!!!" in the next, "Oh, well . . . those darn urine bombs!"

Well, which is it?

Can it be both? Can it be that the United States is struggling to find depth on its national team and CONCACAF road games are tough? Again, Mexico struggles winning road games in World Cup qualifying. They just blew a 2-0 lead at Honduras. Is it because Honduras is good? Or Mexico isn't as good as made out to be?

How about: we are not as good as we think we are. So we get to act like we have such a tough qualifying road, when in actuality, it's because we are closer to the CONCACAF mean than we want to think we are.

Most reasonable US fans I know accept that the USMNT is not a world power. The United States might very well struggle to make Brazil 2014. Wouldn't surprise me all if the US finished fourth and had to go to the playoff with New Zealand. We are closer to Honduras than Spain. Nobody questions that.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Fair enough, but there's a difference between "CONCACAF is tough" and:

Central America is the most difficult area in the world to play a road WC qualifier.

 

[kingcreole]

There's a difference between "CONCACAF is tough" and:

Central America is the most difficult area in the world to play a road WC qualifier.

And I asked for one that could be tougher. You didn't respond. You know soccer. A little too partial to Italy in my opinion, but to each his own. And your knowledge of the game is probably broader than mine. So why not have a discussion? Give me some insight on your opinion.

 

[Norrin Radd]

There's a difference between "CONCACAF is tough" and:

Central America is the most difficult area in the world to play a road WC qualifier.

And I asked for one that could be tougher. You didn't respond. You know soccer. A little too partial to Italy in my opinion, but to each his own. And your knowledge of the game is probably broader than mine. So why not have a discussion? Give me some insight on your opinion.

Know soccer? Perhaps. I'm just a dude who enjoys the game.

You're too hard on Italy. The sting of 2006 lingers for many. I'll always remember the U.S.' listless performance against Ghana that year more than anything.

South America has similar conditions with rowdy fans and poorly kept grounds. Plus certain elevations.

Europe is a place you should expect to be more "civilized" in the way of fans and playing locations. But it is not. Plus the quality of soccer is better, across the board.

What about when Japan plays at Iraq in Asian qualifying? That's not tough?

Point is, you can't really definitively say any region is exceptionally tougher overall. Some places deliver a decided advantage - Azteca; La Paz, Bolivia - but each region has its challenges.

I don't think anyone thinks the U.S. is a "world power," per se, but there is a significant portion of the fanbase that thinks we're better than we are. Player pool-wise, we're looking at some real lean years. It's baffling to me, considering the state of the league and the sport overall compared with the 1990s.

But who knows? Maybe it's because more people want to be involved in the sport now at all levels, and so more individuals who know little about player development (youth coaches, college coaches, Sunil Gulati) are in positions of power.

 

[kingcreole]

Completely agree in that the US should be better, or at least deeper, than we are. It's not a national team problem as much as it is a youth problem. I have a daughter almost old enough to start trying out for state ODP. I don't know if she'll make it or not, but I've heard ODP (at least in my state) is crap. Coaches trying too hard to win games instead of continued development of all players, and favoring the the families that have money or have been a part of ODP for years. For example, there's a high school junior in my city that has been an ODP player for at least four years. Only last year did he finally become a starter for the high school. And frankly, on that team, he was only about the fifth or sixth best player. Yet, he's ODP? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Italy 2006 does sting for several reasons, most of which I'm sure I've mentioned before. I grew up loving Italian soccer. Alassandro Altobelli and Roberto Baggio are among my all-time favorites. I even pouted for days after the 1994 World Cup final. The team that won it 2006 was nothing like those classic Italian teams, but the Euro 2012 Italy team was. I simply did not like that 2006 Italy team at all.

As for other regions, I don't know how teams prepare to play in Bolivia, but at the same that country has only been to two World Cups. But the rest of the continent is generally 6-7 deep. Tough as any place to win.

Europe has rabid fans eager to defend their turf, sometimes to a disgraceful fault with racism. But given the choice between a game at Wembley or a game at Azteca, I'm taking the game at Wembley seven days a week. A game in Rome or a game in San Jose (Costa Rica), I'm playing in Rome. Flawed argument, of course, because the USA can't play key games in those European nations unless it's a World Cup, but that's how I feel.

As for Asia, my brother lived in Japan for several years. He said other than the Koreas, nobody in that zone really has a hatred for Japan. The USA can't go anywhere in Central America without feeling that hatred. Not so much Caribbean, however.

But you are right. Every region does present unique challenges. I can't imagine a trip from Japan to Iraq being very fun, if for no other reason than the distance.