UVA and the alleged frat rape - Rolling Stone backpedals

[MisterCreosote]

Can you link to such a study?

Here's an op-ed written by one of the study authors. There are links to two studies, but you can only access one of them - you have to join "academia.edu" to view the other.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/opinion/foubert-fraternities-rape/

Our study confirmed that fraternities provide the culture of male peer support for violence against women that permits bad attitudes to become treacherous behavior. And that should concern everyone.

 

[MisterCreosote]

And I meant "anecdotes" instead of "evidence."

How many anecdotes do you need to classify them as "evidence?" Give me some time and I'm sure I can come up with however many you need to see.

 

[PW2]

OK, that looks interesting. I look forward to taking a closer look later.

I went to a very small school where wasn't really a "fraternity type" or "sorority type," as men and women go. I would wager that a high majority of non-commuter students were in fraternities or sororities. My wife and I often talk about how we wouldn't have been in them had we gone to a bigger school, and I think that's true.

 

[PW2]

And I meant "anecdotes" instead of "evidence."

How many anecdotes do you need to classify them as "evidence?" Give me some time and I'm sure I can come up with however many you need to see.

Anecdotes ARE evidence. Just not very GOOD or USEFUL evidence.

I much prefer the studies you provided.

 

[doctorquant]

I would guess that the percentage of fraternity members who have committed sexual assault and/or rape is less than their peers of a similar age, who are not members of fraternities. (Including those who attend no college at all.)

What I've read of the studies that claim frat bros are three times more likely to commit sexual assault than other men is pretty sound, if mislabeled slightly. They basically claim not that frats turn men into rapists, but that men predisposed to sexual assault are drawn to the fraternity lifestyle and enabled once they are there.

Can you link to such a study? The Slate piece said that college women are 1.7 times less likely to be victims than non-college women.

Both of these could be true. If dweeby-entitled-snots-who-have-to-buy-their-friends fraternity members are relatively small in number, they could be substantially more likely (relatively speaking) to commit sexual assault even if, in their milieu, sexual assault is relatively less likely overall.

 

[PW2]

I would guess that the percentage of fraternity members who have committed sexual assault and/or rape is less than their peers of a similar age, who are not members of fraternities. (Including those who attend no college at all.)

What I've read of the studies that claim frat bros are three times more likely to commit sexual assault than other men is pretty sound, if mislabeled slightly. They basically claim not that frats turn men into rapists, but that men predisposed to sexual assault are drawn to the fraternity lifestyle and enabled once they are there.

Can you link to such a study? The Slate piece said that college women are 1.7 times less likely to be victims than non-college women.

Both of these could be true. If dweeby-entitled-snots-who-have-to-buy-their-friends fraternity members are relatively small in number, they could be substantially more likely (relatively speaking) to commit sexual assault even if, in their milieu, sexual assault is relatively less likely overall.

I know. I thought that, as well. It's not one-to-one. But it seems UNLIKELY that both would be true.

 

[PW2]

It's funny. When I went to college, I had no preconceived opinion about fraternities. I hadn't even thought about them before. I had no intention of being in one. Then a guy I was friends with in my dorm came up to me and was like, "Are you going to the fraternity rush introduction?" "Uh, yeah, OK." A week later, I'm doing vodka shots in a basement to celebrate. Quite a whirlwind. But it wasn't like I consciously thought, "I need to buy my friends" or, "I'm entitled and this is what entitled people do." It just kind of happened.

 

[doctorquant]

It's funny. When I went to college, I had no preconceived opinion about fraternities. I hadn't even thought about them before. I had no intention of being in one. Then a guy I was friends with in my dorm came up to me and was like, "Are you going to the fraternity rush introduction?" "Uh, yeah, OK." A week later, I'm doing vodka shots in a basement to celebrate. Quite a whirlwind. But it wasn't like I consciously thought, "I need to buy my friends" or, "I'm entitled and this is what entitled people do." It just kind of happened.

You know I was kidding, right?

 

[PW2]

It's funny. When I went to college, I had no preconceived opinion about fraternities. I hadn't even thought about them before. I had no intention of being in one. Then a guy I was friends with in my dorm came up to me and was like, "Are you going to the fraternity rush introduction?" "Uh, yeah, OK." A week later, I'm doing vodka shots in a basement to celebrate. Quite a whirlwind. But it wasn't like I consciously thought, "I need to buy my friends" or, "I'm entitled and this is what entitled people do." It just kind of happened.

You know I was kidding, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah. That wasn't necessarily a response to you. I think that some might wonder why in the world someone would end up in a fraternity. I was just sharing my experience.

 

[MisterCreosote]

The study author very clearly states that their findings centered around the "likelihood of raping." They used for a definition on that term one that was put forth in 1981, by another professor conducting a similar study. You can see that one here:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/malamuth/pdf/81Jsi37.pdf

 

[Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!!]

I would guess that the percentage of fraternity members who have committed sexual assault and/or rape is less than their peers of a similar age, who are not members of fraternities. (Including those who attend no college at all.)

What I've read of the studies that claim frat bros are three times more likely to commit sexual assault than other men is pretty sound, if mislabeled slightly. They basically claim not that frats turn men into rapists, but that men predisposed to sexual assault are drawn to the fraternity lifestyle and enabled once they are there.

That is complete bullshirt.
Complete and total bullshirt.

 

[Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!!]

You don't have mountains of evidence. You have evidence.

"Bros, please take the following survey:

Personal Question #1: Where in public would I want to have sex?
Personal Question #2: Who's my favorite artist?
Personal Question #3: If I could rape someone, who would it be?"

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/17/us/vermont-rape-survey/

So if you play "MFK" with friends your likely to be a murder a rapist and a fraternity bro?