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SnarkShark
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2013
- Messages
- 5,879
What do you consider "trolling?" Is there a standard set of rules? Sometimes being a sarcastic ash can be considered trolling, I guess. Wouldn't want that to get anybody suspended.
Asking for a friend.
Asking for a friend.
First--I'm not going to be doing most of the moderation around here--the moderators you're used to working with will. They understand this community far better than I do, my job is to support them and also handle tech problems for everyone.
The one thing I'm changing on the moderation side is if someone is repeatedly warned for the same offense, then if it continues I'm going to be quicker than the moderators have been in the past to ban them--temporarily, then permanently if necessary. I figure if you've repeatedly been warned by the mods, and you're continuing to violate the rules, then you're doing so knowingly. Than you move from accidentally wasting everyone's time to purposefully wasting everyone's time, and I'm not going to to tolerate that.
I've tried to be proactive by PM'ing some of the users who consistently showed up in the moderator logs and set clear expectations to let them know about this.
It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone if they get banned. And anyone who's banned is welcome to email support@sportsjournalists.com and ask for re-instatement--I'm willing to give folks a second chance if they promise to be good, but if you've violated the rules three or four times, that second chance is opt-in (asking to be unbanned) rather than opt-out (not getting banned in the first place).
Re: that specific thread--the bans I handed out in that thread, the posts weren't so much bantering and sarcasm but rather just stupid bickering and flat-out personal attacks. To clean it up, I had a good bit of collateral damage of deleting posts that weren't involved in the bickering, but I only banned the four folks who were heavily involved, and I only banned them for a week.
Arguably I could have just deleted the posts and warned the users, but I decided those four knew they were crossing the line. If you were one of those four and didn't realize this, my apologies, and as I said, anytime you think you were unfairly warned or banned, just email and I'll likely give you a second or even third chance. (Just not a fourth and a fifth and a sixth...)
Happy to answer more questions on this.
The one thing I'm changing on the moderation side is if someone is repeatedly warned for the same offense, then if it continues I'm going to be quicker than the moderators have been in the past to ban them--temporarily, then permanently if necessary. I figure if you've repeatedly been warned by the mods, and you're continuing to violate the rules, then you're doing so knowingly. Than you move from accidentally wasting everyone's time to purposefully wasting everyone's time, and I'm not going to to tolerate that.
I've tried to be proactive by PM'ing some of the users who consistently showed up in the moderator logs and set clear expectations to let them know about this.
It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone if they get banned. And anyone who's banned is welcome to email support@sportsjournalists.com and ask for re-instatement--I'm willing to give folks a second chance if they promise to be good, but if you've violated the rules three or four times, that second chance is opt-in (asking to be unbanned) rather than opt-out (not getting banned in the first place).
Re: that specific thread--the bans I handed out in that thread, the posts weren't so much bantering and sarcasm but rather just stupid bickering and flat-out personal attacks. To clean it up, I had a good bit of collateral damage of deleting posts that weren't involved in the bickering, but I only banned the four folks who were heavily involved, and I only banned them for a week.
Arguably I could have just deleted the posts and warned the users, but I decided those four knew they were crossing the line. If you were one of those four and didn't realize this, my apologies, and as I said, anytime you think you were unfairly warned or banned, just email and I'll likely give you a second or even third chance. (Just not a fourth and a fifth and a sixth...)
Happy to answer more questions on this.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2002
- Messages
- 30,281
Shark, You have been around here enough that I am certain you have seen the kind of behavior he is talking about. It has mostly involved the same people over and over again. Unfortunately we had an absentee ownership right before Jeff and a moderating crew with limited time and resources to deal with some of the problems that built up. I can't codify being a problem poster with a simple rule, but 99 percent of the people on here have common sense and really don't have to really overthink this. Just be cool.
If your MO includes any of these things:
1) You post just to try to upset or get a negative reaction from people.
2) You can't just ignore someone being a jerk on a message board, so you take their bait and end up acting like an idiot yourself.
3) You are the user who is involved in Pishing matches and personal arguments on thread after thread, which is ruining the board for everyone else.
Those kinds of things get to be problems. Nobody is going to get tossed from here for being sarcastic or having fun or goofing around. Just use a little sense.
Also, I'll always push Jeff to use longer leash for people, rather than a short one. I am not for liberal suspensions or bans. I never have been, even for people on here I personally can't stand. But I ignore someone if I think they are a jerk. If everyone else did that, this place could police itself.
Also, nobody is going to get a vacation from here if they haven't ever been a problem before. At worst, you'll get a PM from one of us asking you to chill, and if you are cool about it, it's not big deal.
If your MO includes any of these things:
1) You post just to try to upset or get a negative reaction from people.
2) You can't just ignore someone being a jerk on a message board, so you take their bait and end up acting like an idiot yourself.
3) You are the user who is involved in Pishing matches and personal arguments on thread after thread, which is ruining the board for everyone else.
Those kinds of things get to be problems. Nobody is going to get tossed from here for being sarcastic or having fun or goofing around. Just use a little sense.
Also, I'll always push Jeff to use longer leash for people, rather than a short one. I am not for liberal suspensions or bans. I never have been, even for people on here I personally can't stand. But I ignore someone if I think they are a jerk. If everyone else did that, this place could police itself.
Also, nobody is going to get a vacation from here if they haven't ever been a problem before. At worst, you'll get a PM from one of us asking you to chill, and if you are cool about it, it's not big deal.
TheSportsPredictor
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2004
- Messages
- 31,766
I say Ndamukong Suh should be banned from the playoffs thread for a week as well. No more mentioning him.
Jeff: What is your policy on topics about or related to Jeter?
In the past, moderators have quickly deleted several Yankee or Jeter related topics I've posted. These weren't spam - some of the ones that stayed up turned into good discussions.
And contrary to what some have said, I have posted about more than just the Captain. But my posting here has diminished a lot in the last couple years since the moderation has become less tolerant.
Thanks,
Manky
In the past, moderators have quickly deleted several Yankee or Jeter related topics I've posted. These weren't spam - some of the ones that stayed up turned into good discussions.
And contrary to what some have said, I have posted about more than just the Captain. But my posting here has diminished a lot in the last couple years since the moderation has become less tolerant.
Thanks,
Manky
MisterCreosote
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2010
- Messages
- 15,643
One of the most widely respected and entertaining posters on this board has already been banned.
I won't go into specifics here, but if this poster has been banished, no one else can possibly be considered up to snuff.
I won't go into specifics here, but if this poster has been banished, no one else can possibly be considered up to snuff.
I'm not sure if you understand why that particular user was banned.
The ban was not because of his public posts, it was because he was forwarding PM's in an attempt to cause trouble.
He'd originally requested that I delete his account, which I responded that I was happy to anonymize the account by changing the username, email, avatar etc and remove any identifying information from any of his posts, but I wasn't going to delete it. That was something I'd told the moderators when I first came on board, before I received his request, and was not at all singling anyone out.
I also took a look at his posts, and found the tone of his messages to be caustic and arrogant and I PM'd him that I didn't really want that on the board going forward and that he should either change his tone or leave the board. I certainly was a bit rude with how I communicated, and I apologize for not being more tactful. I also was over-stereotyping... while some of his posts were caustic and arrogant, many of his posts were extremely intelligent and knowledgable. And for that mistake I also apologize.
I heard nothing back from that user, until two public posts from two other users appeared using the words caustic and arrogant. Since it seemed that rather than having the decency to reply to me directly, he was instead just trying to stir up trouble by forwarding my PM, I decided to ban him.
I make mistakes, so if I send you a message that you disagree with, let me know. I've already reversed a temporary ban on another user because after hearing him out, I agreed that I misread the intention of his post and over-reacted.
But if you instead just try and stir up trouble, then it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone if that user gets banned.
The ban was not because of his public posts, it was because he was forwarding PM's in an attempt to cause trouble.
He'd originally requested that I delete his account, which I responded that I was happy to anonymize the account by changing the username, email, avatar etc and remove any identifying information from any of his posts, but I wasn't going to delete it. That was something I'd told the moderators when I first came on board, before I received his request, and was not at all singling anyone out.
I also took a look at his posts, and found the tone of his messages to be caustic and arrogant and I PM'd him that I didn't really want that on the board going forward and that he should either change his tone or leave the board. I certainly was a bit rude with how I communicated, and I apologize for not being more tactful. I also was over-stereotyping... while some of his posts were caustic and arrogant, many of his posts were extremely intelligent and knowledgable. And for that mistake I also apologize.
I heard nothing back from that user, until two public posts from two other users appeared using the words caustic and arrogant. Since it seemed that rather than having the decency to reply to me directly, he was instead just trying to stir up trouble by forwarding my PM, I decided to ban him.
I make mistakes, so if I send you a message that you disagree with, let me know. I've already reversed a temporary ban on another user because after hearing him out, I agreed that I misread the intention of his post and over-reacted.
But if you instead just try and stir up trouble, then it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone if that user gets banned.
BDC99
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2011
- Messages
- 8,078
This could not be more correct. Ever since I started just ignoring the people I don't like, the experience had been much less stressful. Sure, everyone takes the bait once in a while, but if you know there is no point in arguing, then don't.
YankeeFan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2004
- Messages
- 55,039
I think some of us do know that this was the reason, and object to it nonetheless.
You're new here. You've made some big changes, and changed the way the site will be moderated.
You've threatened to ban folks.
The member in question may very well be caustic and arrogant. LOL. That describes half the board.
Is being caustic and arrogant a reason to suggest someone move on?
As for sharing PM's, I'm not sure why you'd see that as attempting to cause trouble, rather than a simple attempt to share information about the new owner, and the new policies.
It would have been better if that information had come from you, but it was information many here are interested in.
Can you share the reason for this policy with us? You deleted 1/3 of the "members" because they were basically spam. Why would you not honor a request to delete an account?
Uber makes it very difficult to delete your account -- though they will eventually do it -- and took a lot of heat in the media for this.
Honestly, this sounds very thin skinned of you. So, you got teased. BFD.
Caustic and arrogant. It's funny. It should be the kind of thing people can reference years from now, and those of us still here can all laugh about, and the newbies ask what the joke was.
You admit you made mistakes. That's a good sign. It shows strength. But, you banned someone because you didn't like how he responded to your mistakes? That's a bad sign, and shows weakness.
That's all well and good. Open lines of communication are good. But, we're all still learning how to deal/communicate with you.
You've come off as pretty heavy handed. You banned one of the best, most respected posters.
Traffic is way, way down.
I sincerely hope that you will not only un-ban the poster in question, but reach out to him and invite him back.
I think that would be an important step. It's necessary, and will build trust.
I hope my honesty doesn't land me in the penalty box. I hope you don't delete it, but instead reflect, and reply.
And, I hope other members make their feelings known on this issue.
BDC99
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2011
- Messages
- 8,078
I'm certainly not one to stir things up, but I have to agree with most of what YF said. It sure seems like things are arbitrary, and if you can be suspended/banned for being an a-hole on a message board, then this place is going to be more of a ghost town than it is now. There are certainly problem children here, but I'd like to see more time taken to weed them out and have more input from the mods. It doesn't seem right to me that one person can just whack people because he doesn't like their attitude.
