2011 Pro Wrestling Thread

Mystery Meat II · Aug 23, 2011

sgreenwell said:

Mystery Meat II said:

Brad Guire said:

How can a man of Swagger's size not pull off a gut-wrench powerbomb? Maybe they're overselling how "difficult" it is to perform?
Click to expand...

He hasn't had problems with it before and I know he's done it to wrestlers bigger than Riley. It's not a particularly rare move, so you'd think that even though Riley is inexperienced, he'd know how to go up for it. And if they were going to rematch, you'd assume they'd work on that one move since it was so glaringly bad the previous go. It would have been worse had the cameras shifted over to the end of whatever Dolph did to Vickie.
Click to expand...

That whole angle is death, and I'm usually a Vickie fan. No idea why the WWE is using her with people who actually talk a bit on the mic and not embarrass themselves (Riley, Swagger, Dolph). Give her to Otunga and The Other Guy, who can't talk for shit.
Click to expand...

I guess they find Vickie's value in her ability to interact with people, and nobody wants to see Otunga and McSillyputty interact with anyone. I think she can give Swagger a boost because he's an unsteady promo, and having her to play off could help.

proudpittsburgher · Aug 23, 2011

sgreenwell said:

Mystery Meat II said:

Brad Guire said:

How can a man of Swagger's size not pull off a gut-wrench powerbomb? Maybe they're overselling how "difficult" it is to perform?
Click to expand...

He hasn't had problems with it before and I know he's done it to wrestlers bigger than Riley. It's not a particularly rare move, so you'd think that even though Riley is inexperienced, he'd know how to go up for it. And if they were going to rematch, you'd assume they'd work on that one move since it was so glaringly bad the previous go. It would have been worse had the cameras shifted over to the end of whatever Dolph did to Vickie.
Click to expand...

That whole angle is death, and I'm usually a Vickie fan. No idea why the WWE is using her with people who actually talk a bit on the mic and not embarrass themselves (Riley, Swagger, Dolph). Give her to Otunga and The Other Guy, who can't talk for shit.
Click to expand...

I think you are overselling Swagger's mic work.

KYSportsWriter · Aug 23, 2011

For those who don't subscribe to Figure 4, a friend of mine wrote this and sent it in today. It's pretty funny, and spot on.

It's sad to be able to say this about the WWE champion, but... poor Alberto del Rio! How does a hot prospect go from hot prospect to mid card to champion to curtain jerker so quickly? Like this, if you'll allow a tangent.

The C.M. Punk angle brought me back to watching Monday Night Raw. I'm the very definition of an attitude era fan, having lost interest in the product around 2001, come back briefly during the last stages of the Evolution period and largely gave up on WWE afterward. I still kept up through Todd Martin's reports in the last few years, though. I think that describes a fair portion of the previous audience.

So the angle with Punk coming out and voicing what the maligned Internet fans are saying caught my attention. His going over Superman Cena (non-clean win though it was both times) for the title presented a fantastic opportunity for a fresh feeling in the show. An interesting character stood poised to breathe life where only stagnation had been for years.

Everything was rolling along so swimmingly. And then 1997 called, big Nash waddled down and derailed the Punk train to plant the seeds of yet another evil management angle from the late 90s whose key players all are playing roles from that time period. Fine. They've done this dozens of times.

So enter AdR, who is slated to have a title run at some point. Great! He's a new face, is charismatic, a fine worker and Ricardo Rodriguez is my favorite human being on earth. But his first title run comes almost as a side note to the management angle... not so great, but still acceptable. Taking the belt from Punk so quickly deflated the angle a little, but at least it would set up a new feud in ADR vs. Punk. Well, no, because Punk has to fight with management.

That leaves Cena to fight with ADR. Del Rio has a fine week with two clean title defenses, even if on Monday night Cena kicked his ass and proceeded to bury him on the mike (not to mention the whole money in the bank concept). Alright, acceptable.

Enter this Monday. Alberto comes out with his sweet car, every bit a champion even if a character champion. Before he can speak, he's interrupted by Cena, who buries Del Rio as a wrestler, buries the character Del Rio plays ("Like we're supposed to believe you have 10,000 cars"), and generally demeans ADR in a way that no champion should ever suffer.

Then Punk comes out and does the same thing, treating ADR like an afterthought to rant about Nash and HHH.

Then HHH comes out and does the same thing, largely ignoring ADR except to talk down to him. ("Wipe that smug look off your face") Oh, and then HHH books the WWE champion in the opening match against a midcarder, while Cena and Punk are placed in the main event.

To recap, we're left with one wasted angle (Punk the champion of the voiceless), one afterthought title run (Alberto), one washed up push-killer involved in the primary storyline (Nash), a management conspiracy angle (I seriously wondered if they hadn't hired Russo back) and still at the top of the card, the invincible John Cena (whose character is more stale, in my opinion, than HHH ever was). Oh, and Cena went over Punk on Raw, as if to make all involved perfectly aware that John Cena will come out on top no matter how hot the other performer is.

In all of this, the biggest loss to me is the trampling of Del Rio. He could have been an excellent heel foil for anybody on the card, but as of now, he's just another in a long line of half-hearted championship pushes. He has the belt, but the emphasis is on John Cena and/or management. It's played out, and Del Rio deserves better.

Rant over.
Click to expand...

sgreenwell · Aug 23, 2011

proudpittsburgher said:

sgreenwell said:

Mystery Meat II said:

Brad Guire said:

How can a man of Swagger's size not pull off a gut-wrench powerbomb? Maybe they're overselling how "difficult" it is to perform?
Click to expand...

He hasn't had problems with it before and I know he's done it to wrestlers bigger than Riley. It's not a particularly rare move, so you'd think that even though Riley is inexperienced, he'd know how to go up for it. And if they were going to rematch, you'd assume they'd work on that one move since it was so glaringly bad the previous go. It would have been worse had the cameras shifted over to the end of whatever Dolph did to Vickie.
Click to expand...

That whole angle is death, and I'm usually a Vickie fan. No idea why the WWE is using her with people who actually talk a bit on the mic and not embarrass themselves (Riley, Swagger, Dolph). Give her to Otunga and The Other Guy, who can't talk for shit.
Click to expand...

I think you are overselling Swagger's mic work.
Click to expand...

I thought he was fine when they left him be Kurt Angle, Part Two - doing the push up contests, and filling the ring with his memorabilia. From there though, that whole persona and character went downhill because they booked him to look weak. The dude is one of the better "pure" wrestlers for a big guy that they have, given his amateur background, but it seems like Jim Ross is the only one who believes in him.

Baron Scicluna · Aug 24, 2011

KYSportsWriter said:

For those who don't subscribe to Figure 4, a friend of mine wrote this and sent it in today. It's pretty funny, and spot on.

It's sad to be able to say this about the WWE champion, but... poor Alberto del Rio! How does a hot prospect go from hot prospect to mid card to champion to curtain jerker so quickly? Like this, if you'll allow a tangent.

The C.M. Punk angle brought me back to watching Monday Night Raw. I'm the very definition of an attitude era fan, having lost interest in the product around 2001, come back briefly during the last stages of the Evolution period and largely gave up on WWE afterward. I still kept up through Todd Martin's reports in the last few years, though. I think that describes a fair portion of the previous audience.

So the angle with Punk coming out and voicing what the maligned Internet fans are saying caught my attention. His going over Superman Cena (non-clean win though it was both times) for the title presented a fantastic opportunity for a fresh feeling in the show. An interesting character stood poised to breathe life where only stagnation had been for years.

Everything was rolling along so swimmingly. And then 1997 called, big Nash waddled down and derailed the Punk train to plant the seeds of yet another evil management angle from the late 90s whose key players all are playing roles from that time period. Fine. They've done this dozens of times.

So enter AdR, who is slated to have a title run at some point. Great! He's a new face, is charismatic, a fine worker and Ricardo Rodriguez is my favorite human being on earth. But his first title run comes almost as a side note to the management angle... not so great, but still acceptable. Taking the belt from Punk so quickly deflated the angle a little, but at least it would set up a new feud in ADR vs. Punk. Well, no, because Punk has to fight with management.

That leaves Cena to fight with ADR. Del Rio has a fine week with two clean title defenses, even if on Monday night Cena kicked his ass and proceeded to bury him on the mike (not to mention the whole money in the bank concept). Alright, acceptable.

Enter this Monday. Alberto comes out with his sweet car, every bit a champion even if a character champion. Before he can speak, he's interrupted by Cena, who buries Del Rio as a wrestler, buries the character Del Rio plays ("Like we're supposed to believe you have 10,000 cars"), and generally demeans ADR in a way that no champion should ever suffer.

Then Punk comes out and does the same thing, treating ADR like an afterthought to rant about Nash and HHH.

Then HHH comes out and does the same thing, largely ignoring ADR except to talk down to him. ("Wipe that smug look off your face") Oh, and then HHH books the WWE champion in the opening match against a midcarder, while Cena and Punk are placed in the main event.

To recap, we're left with one wasted angle (Punk the champion of the voiceless), one afterthought title run (Alberto), one washed up push-killer involved in the primary storyline (Nash), a management conspiracy angle (I seriously wondered if they hadn't hired Russo back) and still at the top of the card, the invincible John Cena (whose character is more stale, in my opinion, than HHH ever was). Oh, and Cena went over Punk on Raw, as if to make all involved perfectly aware that John Cena will come out on top no matter how hot the other performer is.

In all of this, the biggest loss to me is the trampling of Del Rio. He could have been an excellent heel foil for anybody on the card, but as of now, he's just another in a long line of half-hearted championship pushes. He has the belt, but the emphasis is on John Cena and/or management. It's played out, and Del Rio deserves better.

Rant over.
Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Nicely done.

I'm willing to give these storylines another week or two, but I am concerned that the excitement is going to fizzle out.

proudpittsburgher · Aug 24, 2011

sgreenwell said:

proudpittsburgher said:

sgreenwell said:

Mystery Meat II said:

Brad Guire said:

How can a man of Swagger's size not pull off a gut-wrench powerbomb? Maybe they're overselling how "difficult" it is to perform?
Click to expand...

He hasn't had problems with it before and I know he's done it to wrestlers bigger than Riley. It's not a particularly rare move, so you'd think that even though Riley is inexperienced, he'd know how to go up for it. And if they were going to rematch, you'd assume they'd work on that one move since it was so glaringly bad the previous go. It would have been worse had the cameras shifted over to the end of whatever Dolph did to Vickie.
Click to expand...

That whole angle is death, and I'm usually a Vickie fan. No idea why the WWE is using her with people who actually talk a bit on the mic and not embarrass themselves (Riley, Swagger, Dolph). Give her to Otunga and The Other Guy, who can't talk for shit.
Click to expand...

I think you are overselling Swagger's mic work.
Click to expand...

I thought he was fine when they left him be Kurt Angle, Part Two - doing the push up contests, and filling the ring with his memorabilia. From there though, that whole persona and character went downhill because they booked him to look weak. The dude is one of the better "pure" wrestlers for a big guy that they have, given his amateur background, but it seems like Jim Ross is the only one who believes in him.
Click to expand...

I would agree with you. I liked the All-American, american american schtick. But he has that dumbfounded look on his face all the time, isn't quick with his comebacks and just comes off as a dope. I'm almost as disappointed with his mic work as I am Morrison.

Baron Scicluna · Aug 24, 2011

proudpittsburgher said:

sgreenwell said:

proudpittsburgher said:

sgreenwell said:

Mystery Meat II said:

Brad Guire said:

How can a man of Swagger's size not pull off a gut-wrench powerbomb? Maybe they're overselling how "difficult" it is to perform?
Click to expand...

He hasn't had problems with it before and I know he's done it to wrestlers bigger than Riley. It's not a particularly rare move, so you'd think that even though Riley is inexperienced, he'd know how to go up for it. And if they were going to rematch, you'd assume they'd work on that one move since it was so glaringly bad the previous go. It would have been worse had the cameras shifted over to the end of whatever Dolph did to Vickie.
Click to expand...

That whole angle is death, and I'm usually a Vickie fan. No idea why the WWE is using her with people who actually talk a bit on the mic and not embarrass themselves (Riley, Swagger, Dolph). Give her to Otunga and The Other Guy, who can't talk for shit.
Click to expand...

I think you are overselling Swagger's mic work.
Click to expand...

I thought he was fine when they left him be Kurt Angle, Part Two - doing the push up contests, and filling the ring with his memorabilia. From there though, that whole persona and character went downhill because they booked him to look weak. The dude is one of the better "pure" wrestlers for a big guy that they have, given his amateur background, but it seems like Jim Ross is the only one who believes in him.
Click to expand...

I would agree with you. I liked the All-American, american american schtick. But he has that dumbfounded look on his face all the time, isn't quick with his comebacks and just comes off as a dope. I'm almost as disappointed with his mic work as I am Morrison.
Click to expand...

Swagger is just a poor-man's Kurt Angle, at best. Angle has that ability to be a kick-ass guy one minute, a goofy guy the next.

Swagger, with the exception of that one thing he did with his "father" (who was actually longtime southern wrestler Jimmy Golden/Bunkhouse Buck), just doesn't seem very funny, and his moveset suffers from 1. Copying Angle/Shamrock with the ankle lock and 2. A gut-wrench powerbomb just doesn't look that spectacular nowadays.

Rockbottom · Aug 25, 2011

A gut-wrench powerbomb doesn't look that spectacular, indeed, when you can't even manage to perform it correctly on live TV on consecutive shows.

rb

proudpittsburgher · Aug 25, 2011

Rockbottom said:

A gut-wrench powerbomb doesn't look that spectacular, indeed, when you can't even manage to perform it correctly on live TV on consecutive shows.

rb
Click to expand...

I would imagine that with some of the bigger guys, the push off is most important with that move. Especially considering Swagger is likely mostly occupied with not dropping him on his head and breaking his neck once he has him up. Either way, maybe he should save that move for matches against Ray and Evan Borne.

Mystery Meat II · Aug 25, 2011

proudpittsburgher said:

Rockbottom said:

A gut-wrench powerbomb doesn't look that spectacular, indeed, when you can't even manage to perform it correctly on live TV on consecutive shows.

rb
Click to expand...

I would imagine that with some of the bigger guys, the push off is most important with that move. Especially considering Swagger is likely mostly occupied with not dropping him on his head and breaking his neck once he has him up. Either way, maybe he should save that move for matches against Ray and Evan Borne.
Click to expand...

Thing is, Alex Riley is not the largest wrestler that Swagger has used that move on, and I've never seen him have so much trouble with it before, which leads me to believe that Riley isn't going up for it properly for whatever reason.

If Nash is going to wrestle, or at least be more physically involved going forward, Swagger might be instructed to not use the move as much so as not to take away from the jackknife.

proudpittsburgher · Aug 25, 2011

Mystery Meat II said:

proudpittsburgher said:

Rockbottom said:

A gut-wrench powerbomb doesn't look that spectacular, indeed, when you can't even manage to perform it correctly on live TV on consecutive shows.

rb
Click to expand...

I would imagine that with some of the bigger guys, the push off is most important with that move. Especially considering Swagger is likely mostly occupied with not dropping him on his head and breaking his neck once he has him up. Either way, maybe he should save that move for matches against Ray and Evan Borne.
Click to expand...

Thing is, Alex Riley is not the largest wrestler that Swagger has used that move on, and I've never seen him have so much trouble with it before, which leads me to believe that Riley isn't going up for it properly for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Another case of the green wrestler's inadaquacies making the experienced guy look like hell.

tripleoption34 · Aug 25, 2011

If the sight of Ric Flair still wrestling at 62 saddens you, this won't make it any easier. I knew he was in debt, but fuck.....

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6891795/the-wrestler-real-life

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2011 Pro Wrestling Thread

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