2012 MLB Regular Season Running Thread

Ozzie Smith doesn't count because he only played SS for 16 years ....

 

Are you seriously trying to argue that Rabbit Maranville, career .258 hitter, was as good as Jeter?

The other players you mention were great but not on Jeter's level.

 

Jeter's a hack.

 

In the case of Ozzie: 12 Gold Gloves > 5.

 

There was less competition for Gold Gloves in Ozzie's day.

 

Go on, Manky. Top yourself. Try to argue that Jeter is a better defensive shortstop than Ozzie Smith. You know you want to.

 

bwahahahahahaha

 

Wow.

 

Here are my ranking for best defensive shortstops of all-time. Jeter isn't in my top 15.

1) Ozzie Smith - What needs to be said here? Apart from the fact that the distance between Smith and Belanger/Wagner is ENORMOUS. Smith generated an astounding 191 points by the GI method for defense alone...Wagner and Belanger are in a virtual tie at 157 points. That is uncommon...that the top guy is that far ahead. If anyone disagrees that Ozzie Smith was in fact the greatest fielder at any position...let alone SS...by a wide WIDE margin...well...I will fight you over it. LOL

2) Mark Belanger - Ignoring the Smith outlier, Belanger had to have been a great fielder...not only does the fielding data say he was...his batting line says so: 68 OPS+ (!!) and yet...two seasons where he got MVP shares and one season where he was an all-star! Wowsers.

3) Honus Wagner - Versatile, team-player, historically great fielder wherever he played. Need I say more?

4) Joe Tinker - The best fielder on the best fielding dynasty in the history of baseball.

5) Herman Long - the highest career W/162 in baseball history at SS...despite a short career, Long finds his way to the top.

6) Luis Aparicio - This shouldn't be surprising. Not much of a hitter yet an 18 year career.

7) Rabbit Maranville - Again...not all that surprising...a lot of deadball stars here...

8) George Davis - Another of the multi-position masters...Davis was a trooper, a winner, and a skilled fielder wherever he played.

9) Tony Fernandez - Rare modern star...his peak rivaled Ozzie's peak at the same time, though he lacked the consistent dominance of Smith.

10) Bill Dahlen - He's going to be a mainstay on any list as well...though I think he's a bit overrated.

11) Marty Marion

12) Dave Concepcion

13) Phil Rizzuto Here's his PCA card

Code:

Yr	EqG	Wins	PCA-BA
1941	123	4.28	0.343 GG
1942	142	4.93	0.342 GG
1946	123	3.33	0.308
1947	148	4.51	0.323 GG
1948	128	2.44	0.273
1949	151	4.16	0.310
1950	153	4.63	0.323 GG
1951	138	2.72	0.276
1952	148	5.17	0.343 GG
1953	121	2.79	0.290
1954	93	2.34	0.300
1955	50	1.06	0.282

A rare Yankee who is NOT overrated! Well...he's overrated because he couldn't hit and has no place in the HOF but at least they got his glove right.

14) Robin Yount - I bumped him WAY down because a lot of his great seasons came as a CF, not as a SS, but he has to go on one of these lists and he did more work at short than in CF...and I don't believe in screwing multi-position guys like Yount out of mention.

15) Scott Fletcher

Also close: Neifi Perez, Pee Wee Reese, Montgomery Ward, Dave Bancroft and Lou Boudreau.

And here's Reese's PCA Card

Code:

Yr	EqG	Wins	PCA-BA
1940	79	2.26	0.315
1941	149	4.93	0.335 GG
1942	150	5.40	0.348 GG
1946	150	3.89	0.303
1947	140	3.88	0.311
1948	150	5.36	0.347 GG
1949	156	3.86	0.298
1950	134	2.27	0.263
1951	151	1.90	0.244
1952	138	1.70	0.243
1953	134	2.92	0.285
1954	139	1.92	0.249
1955	140	1.68	0.241
1956	132	2.14	0.260
1957	95	2.48	0.342 (third base)

I would consider moving Reese up onto my list displacing Yount due to him having missed a big chunk of his prime seasons fighting in WWII.

Dude was very good while he was young.

 

Good post; would you consider doing one for top offensive shortstops?

 

I'm guessing you think Jetes should be at the top of that list, too?

 

I'm not sure what those stats he showed us meant, but I think he has fallen victim to the fallacy that if a player is a poor hitter then they must be good defensively. I've never heard anyone argue Scott Fletcher was an all time great defensive player.