2012 Pro Wrestling Thread

I'm re-watching the entire season of the NWA in 1989 and the WWF in 1990 and it's amazing to me how far behind the curve the NWA was in promotion and marketing compared to the WWF. I mean, I always knew WWF was light years ahead in this area, but you don't realize it until actually watching some footage from these eras in chronological order.

Take a look at the NWA in 1989. You had the Flair/Steamboat fued, Flair/Funk fued, Great Muta taking off, Rick Steiner taking off, and Sting, Lex Luger and Barry Windham all being their usual solid selves. Mix in the Midnight Express/Cornette/Paul E. angle and the Road Warriors being the Road Warriors and you have a promotion absolutely loaded with star power.

But the NWA did little or nothing to build up feuds or promote wrestlers as larger than life characters that are a big deal. Steamboat beat Flair for the title at Chi-Town Rumble, then never even appeared on the main weekly TV show for three weeks! Can you imagine the Warrior beating Hogan at Wrestlemania VI, then disappearing for close to a month?

Meanwhile, WWF's actual product was nowhere near as good as the NWA's, but you would never know by watching it. Each feud was given time to develop on TV and some sort of attention was paid to make viewers care about it at least a little bit.

I know the WWF had the deep pockets and East Coast advantage in building its empire, but one has to wonder if the NWA couldn't have put up more of a fight with a little more common sense.

 

Part of that was what each organization emphasized.

Even back then, the WWF emphasized "Sports Entertainment". The NWA emphasized "Wrestling". The production values reflected in each. NWA was still clinging to the old-school dark arena feeling with realistic characters, while WWF was using crazy gimmicks in bright arenas and selling ice cream bars.

The Flair-Steamboat feud was given a decent amount of time to develop, plus they already had a past history together, which was cited. WWF would have pretended that they didn't have a clue who Steamboat was. And the transition to Flair/Funk was as smooth as could be.

I've often thought, that if you really wanted to compare two organizations and show how behind the times one of them was, to look at the WWF and the AWA around 1986. WWF had Hogan as champion feuding with Orndorff, Savage as IC champ and the Bulldogs as tag champs.

AWA, which had been on top three years before, had a 52-year-old Nick Bockwinkle, who was at least five years behind his prime, as champion. Hennig was a crediblity top contender. Skinny Greg Gagne, the boss's son, was the No. 2 babyface. Their tag feud with Rose/Sommers and the Rockers was excellent, but they had no depth behind those two.

 

You can still emphasize the wrestling part while taking steps to portray your promotion and your wrestlers (and their feuds) as something we should care about. The initial build when Steamboat came in was fine, but once he won the title, NWA totally dropped the ball. They did nothing to make me feel like Steamboat was special.

I get what you're saying with the AWA comparison, but it seems a little too easy. With Verne leading the way, I don't think AWA ever had a legit shot of competing w/ the WWF. I do feel like the NWA/WCW had a legit shot, but botched it until they made a brief run with the NWO.

 

The NWA in 1989 had a great wrestling product, and mediocre production.

The next year, when Jim Herd took over, they tried the WWF way with the gimmicks. The only thing they did was piss off their loyal fans who wanted to see actual wrestling. The company actually got better for a while in 1992, wrestling-wise, and had some decent moments with Vader in '93 before the Hogan era.

Steamboat, for all his wrestling prowess, also wasn't seen as someone who should be carrying the ball as champion. In the WWF, he was an IC champ for a couple of months, until Vince took the belt away because he wanted time at home with his kid. Even then, Steamboat wasn't really seen as a main-eventer too much. He was seen more as a guy who had Flair's number.

 

Steamboat : 1980s champion :: Daniel Bryan / Chris Jericho / Chris Benoit :: 2000s champion

All of them have been seen as capable guys to carry the belt, since you know they're never going to embarrass you in the ring. However, all of them are more popular "insider" and smark guys as opposed to guys that connect super-well with the general public (and I say that as a Jericho mark).

 

Did anybody really try to "connect Steamboat with the general public?" I suppose you could argue Vince was going to give it a shot in 1987 after WM3, but Steamboat asked for time off and it fell apart. He seemed to connect pretty damn well when he came into the NWA in '89. But once he became champ, they never really did anything with him.

I don't pay too much attention to the modern product, but in Bryan's case, when an entire arena full of people are chanting "Yes! Yes! Yes!" I'd say he's connecting. Perhaps he could connect even more if the powers that be would give him a shot instead of having him lose the title in 18 seconds on the year's biggest show.

 

I think Daniel Bryan is riding a pretty nice wave right now, but that 18-second loss is probably what has the crowd so galvanized for him. Also, you're right - I doubt the WWE's ability to capitalize on his popularity. After that loss, he got super-over, yet the WWE is now booking him in a weird abusive boyfriend / ex-boyfriend angle, completely ignoring the crowd reaction he's getting.

 

They did in Mid-Atlantic in Steamboat's early days, when they made him to be this exotic heartthrob face (which drove Flair crazy, thus starting their epic feud). But for as great as he was in the ring, outside the ring all I can think of are fire-breathing entrances and a theme song that plays up what a good father he is. Good luck putting that up against Flair and Savage; it took a ring bell to the throat to make people truly love Steamboat leading into WM3.

 

The internet wrestling community's butthurt over Bryan losing in 18 seconds is pretty hypocritical, especially coming from guys who've been watching for a few years. I don't recall a lot of tears shed over Orlando Jordan tapping away the IC title to Chris Benoit in 23 seconds.

You have to be careful not to give in to the heat of the moment crowd reactions because they don't always sustain. WCW did that and it resulted in so many turns that it was impossible to care about anyone anymore. Sheamus turned face in part because he was starting to get pops, and he was pretty popular up to WM. What if they do the double turn and everyone falls in love with over-the-top arse-kicking Sheamus again?

I fear one night we'll get YES! WHAT? YES! WHAT? YES! WHAT? at a show and it'll just kill the whole god damned thing.

 

heh, I would actually love to see that. The next time they can have SCSA and Daniel Bryan in the ring, they should book it. I don't mind the "WHAT?" chant in general though, since I consider it akin to civil disobedience for wrestling crowds, along the lines of "this is boring" and "you fucked up."

I think there is a good deal of gray between flip-flopping and hot shotting a guy like the WCW would do, and the strict adherence to whatever shitty plan they have, which is more of the current WWE modus operandi. Lesnar got cheers for beating the shit out of Cena, so the WWE's "solution" is to align him with Johnny Ace. (And if that still doesn't work, you can bet he gets involved in Vickie's stable somehow.) Daniel Bryan was getting cheered while dressing down his ex-GF on Smackdown, and it's not like AJ is Eve, she's pretty much as vanilla face (just not literally) as you can get for a WWE valet.

 

There's a number of reasons you don't want Brock as a face here:

1. He's better suited as a monster heel than a face. His offense, his look, his attitude all scream I'M A BAD MOTHERFUCKER AND FUCK YOU FOR LOOKING AT ME

2. He's a part-timer. You don't turn your signature face1 to accommodate a guy who's going to be in for a handful of shows2. And who's to say he even makes it to 40 dates? He might get bored and/or miss UFC, light up some Spice he bought from Evan Bourne or come down with a phantom return of his diverticulitis, and not even get to WM29. After all, he spazzed out on them when he left eight years ago. Which leads us to

3. He left WWE on rocky terms. No way Vince is going to send the message that it's OK to leave him in the lurch like that.

4. Initial pops for big returns don't mean anything. Everyone gets the big cheer when they've been gone a while. They tried to play off that with Jericho's ARRIVE. SOAK UP CHEERS. LEAVE schtick early on, but nobody got it because they kept cheering until he finally just went ahead and Codebreakered Punk. You don't want to rewrite all your plans for a return pop. They already do enough 11th hour resetting as it is.



1 -- Of course he was brought back for Cena. They aren't signing him to wrestle Punk or Sheamus (even though that'd be a good time-filler). And they sure as hell don't sign him to wrestle the beta heels WWE has now.

2 -- Yes, The Rock. But he's his own rule. WWE needed him a lot more than he needed them. Plus he's known as a face unlike Brock, and even if he wasn't, there's almost no way you're getting people to boo him at this point, so might as well go with it.

 

Orlando Jordan didn't have the international reputation that Bryan has, or that Benoit had. When a guy builds up that rep in high school gyms and Japan, fans want to see him rewarded for his hard work and perseverance. Jordan, on the other hand, was a newcomer who hardly anyone knew, and then only got any heat as a heel because of JBL.

The big problem with WCW is that they couldn't plan for anything five minutes ahead of time. Literally. There are stories of wrestlers being handed a script and told to memorize it for a promo they were to give in five minutes. There were face and heel turns decided upon during the middle of the show.

WWE has done the opposite. They're so stuck on the script that they can't change things up when the situation warrants it. They used to be able to in the Attitude Era, but now they just seem like they want to be stubborn.

For Bryan, if I were the WWE, I would have waited a couple of weeks, seen if he was still getting cheers, then formulate a plan to turn him back face. One idea would have been to keep having A.J. cost him wins, then have her do it on purpose.