2012 Pro Wrestling Thread

You guys are forgetting how forgettable Zack Ryder was before the YouTube push. Which I guess is kind of the point, right? But there really wasn't much there. He was a Major Brother with Curt Hawkins and nobody cared. They became the Edgeheads and any reaction they got could be traced to Edge and Vickie. Then he became Zach Ryder the Jersey Shore broski and spent his time playing .500 ball in Superstars. At some point, he started his series and suddenly Internet nerds and the contrarians hoping to grasp anything that doesn't answer to JEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA perked up. He panders to his social media followers, he plays up his five moves of catchphrase doom and ... that's kind of it. I mean, if you're going to rally behind an underdog, why not Tyson Kidd? Or Trent Barretta? Hell, what outside the broski thing does Ryder have over his old partner? I guess I'll never get it, but as he stands, Zack Ryder does not move my needle even a little bit.

 

The thing is, when you look at some of the top stars, they were in the same position Ryder was in before he got his mini-push. The position of "Who gives a shit".

Austin was the Ringmaster. Trips was a Connecticut blueblood. Bret Hart and HBK were tag-team wrestlers. Batista was a deacon. Edge was basically a tag-team guy and a singles midcarder. Cena and the Rock were wide-eyed kids.

But when they started doing things to stand out on their own, fans noticed, their popularity/hatred grew and the powers that be took their momentum and ran with it, giving them big pushes.

Ryder never got the big push. The WWE had to be dragged kicking and screaming into getting him on TV once fans started cheering for him. Even then, they had him lose. But the fans kept cheering for him, and they finally gave him a chance with the U.S. title. Then they yanked it off of him after not even two months. Then they buried him with the ridiculous storyline.

Maybe he might have become a main-eventer, maybe not. But the WWE didn't do themselves any favors by torpedoeing themselves in the foot.

 

In fairness, it's no different than what happened with Daniel Bryan. They pretty much ignored him completely until last year's MITB despite the internet love for him and, even then, his title run was pretty craptastic.

Luckily, they redeemed it with the brilliant WrestleMania match which FINALLY got him truly over with fans and his development, in my opinion, has been one of (if not the) top story of 2012 for the company thus far.

 

Baron said exactly what I was thinking.

We don't know how good or over with the fans Ryder could've been because he never really got the chance.

 

Why listen to fans when there are so many more colors to choose from for the next Cenation shirt?

 

OK, let's look at the names you're comparing Ryder to:

* Before Austin was the Ringmaster, he was a Hollywood Blond in WCW and Mr. Monday Nyquil in ECW. Hell, he was targeted for greatness going back to the dying days of World Class when he feuded with Chris Adams. Anyone paying attention knew just how good he could be, even if they couldn't predict the gimmick that made him an icon.
* Triple H was hyped by those in the know as a star in waiting. And he had success with the blueblood gimmick. If he didn't go and hug Scott Hall and Kevin Nash that night, his push doesn't get short-circuited and who knows how long he sticks with it?
* Michaels, Hart and Edge were always considered very talented. It was just a matter of finding a way to separate them from their tag teams
* Cena and Rock were can't miss prospects very early.
* Bautista had the look and it was obvious he was going to get every chance to succeed. That deacon gimmick didn't last very long, and soon he was in Evolution
* Bryan had to pay his "didn't get famous by working for WWE" dues. Pretty much everyone has to pay 'em.

Point being, all of then had obvious upsides that Ryder doesn't have. He's not an born superstar. His interviewing style sucks ass, and anything that comes out of his mouth besides WWWYKI and Broski of the Week is pretty lame. His in-ring ability is nothing special. Without Long Island Iced Z, he's a midcard guy. With it, he gets a pop but it's got a short shelf life. It's nothing that warrants him going ahead of Sheamus, Kofi Kingston, of a host of other faces as an upper-card guy. His analog is Santino -- boring face, boring heel, develops unexpected following because of being funny, turns face to capitalize, then you realize there wasn't that much there. Right now he might as well be Jerry Lawler's younger brother. Maybe Ryder will eventually get to his spot, but he's not a guy you build around or even close to it. It's great people cheer for him, but it takes more than that.

 

I'm intrigued by your thoughts and wish to buy a lifetime subscription to your newsletter.

I've always been in the "I don't get it" camp when it comes to the love affair with Ryder by the smarks.

 

Ryder is a Flavor of the Month that got extended a couple of weeks. Plain and simple. His act is interesting the first couple of times, but is tiring shortly after. Hell, I remember when P.N. News was getting something of a push by WCW in the early 90s, and it's the same thing: just as quickly as fans grew weary of a fat guy whose lyrics made Will Smith look like Tupac, off to Jobberville went News.

 

No one knew how hot Austin was going to become. If the WWF knew, they would have had him in the Stone Cold gimmick right off the bat. Fact is, though, he made his Austin 3.16 speech, the fans responded, and the WWF pushed him, even though he was a heel. You can't help but wonder if today's WWF would have been upset that he was getting cheered as a heel and tried to make him stay one.

Trips got the opportunity once Hall and Nash left. Before that, he was just a midcarder feuding with Duke "the Dumpster" Droese and Henry Godwin. I remember how strange it was the first time he teamed up with HBK on Raw. It was like, "what's this midcarder doing with Michaels?" And how huge would he have been if he hadn't married the boss' daughter?

HBK and Hart were considered too small by Vince. Heck, Hart was in WWF for seven years before getting an IC title reign. HBK only got a push once he turned heel, and even then, he was losing for a while against upper-carders until '94. Edge was seen as talented, but he started out as a crazy guy riding subways and a guy hanging out with gothic people. He only got hot by nailing another wrestler's girlfriend.

Cena and Rock? They were getting booed out of the building as generic babyfaces, and had to turn heel in order to have any relevance. And then they both turned back face once the fans started cheering them because they liked them. Now, of course, fans are sick of Cena, so they want him heel again so he'll be cool.

Batista? Brackus also had a great look, and where is he now? And there was no guarantee that he was going to become huge with Evolution. The fans started responding to the potential face turn, and that launched him into the main event.

With Ryder, we really don't know if his in-ring ability or character has the range to grow into the main event. Heck, Cena had "You can't wrestle!" chants in his ears for years. You don't hear them anymore, because he's shown he's actually a good worker. Ryder never had the chance to take it to the next level, unlike the others mentioned.

 

I think the issue with guys like Ryder, Charlie Haas doing his impersonation gimmick, Santino, Broadus Clay, etc., is that fans can't ever really get fully behind them because they never do get an honest push. Fine, they win a bunch of squash and comedy matches, but then the WWE never takes the next step of just throwing them into a 20-minute match with someone. If they failed and put on a horrible performance, then maybe we'd understand why they weren't really pushed that strong to begin with, but usually they never even get the opportunity.

 

It's similar to what they're doing with Ryback right now and Brodus Clay before that. Week after week, we get fed the same boring crap with a squash victory and what could have been an intriguing new and fresh character (Even though Ryback is an incredible Goldberg ripoff) falls apart, the fans stop caring and the WWE shuts the program down before it even gets going.

I like Ryder. I like him IN SPITE of his shitty gimmick because I think he is actually very strong in the ring. He's a pretty big guy and he moves well, sells well and tells a good story. If you were making a list of WWE superstars organized by in-ring ability, Ryder would be closer to the top than the bottom, IMO.

Where he fails miserably is this god-awful gimmick and the WWE's refusal to give him a storyline of any merit. I thought for a while we were going to get it with the Eve stuff but all they did, if you break it down, is have him flirt with her on camera for 35 seconds each week. There was no chemistry, no chance to see if it could grow. And then they crushed him pointlessly just as fast as he was built.

The point here isn't just about Ryder. It's about all the guys at the mid-card level. Guys like Ziggler, Rhodes, Kofi, Ryder, McIntyre, Truth, Miz, etc are given a glimmer of a push and then it's yanked away before it even starts, making them lose ground in the process.

By now, Miz should be back in the spotlight and headlining Raw in the title picture. Same thing with Kofi. He should have been given at least one main title program by now. Ziggler seems on the verge and he's so damn good in the ring that I can't imagine it takes much longer. The rest? They're just as likely to be future endeavored as they are to win gold right now and it's a shame.

There's a reason the WWE has to keep going back to the Rocks, Lesnars, etc when it comes time to build Mania. It's because they haven't let their talent grow and exercised enough patience to see where things can go because they'd rather just plop out the same three storylines week after week after week.

 

Pre-YouTube, the thing that stood out most to me about Ryder was his ring gear. The half-trunks, half-pants combo was weird, but memorable.