2013 MLB Hall of Fame Screechfest

Oh, so now guys are being held out because they didn't report on their teammates? Seriously? That's how far you are going to go to justify your ridiculous approach?

 

There's just something about the topic of drugs that makes otherwise rational people lose their shit.

 

It's just a difference in degree, not kind. And 15 years is the maximum. Decisions certainly may work themselves out before that. I'm just not to terms at this point, again, at how I'd want to treat PEDs. 60 in a 55? Or murder in the first? In between? And whatever the answer, why?

Those kind of deep questions need time to ferment.

 

C'mon, OOP has never been rational here.

 

Plays nice and speaks only popular opinions = your version of rational

To be fair, you are far from alone in that thinking around here,

 

Again, the comparison to criminal offenses is comical. Spare us.

The problem is we aren't talking about differences in degree here. Not really. We are talking about players who there is evidence against and those who there is not evidence against. It's one thing to hold it against someone if he tested positive or admitted to PED use. It's another to hold a deserving player out of the Hall of Fame based on suspicion and guesswork.

And that's really what it comes down to. I want to see actual evidence before punishing somebody for PED use. You want to punish them for simply being accused, whether the accusation has any evidence to support it or not.

 

No one is being punished.

 

That is a load of delusional bullshit. Please just stop until you are ready to post honestly.

 

I have to agree with outofplace here. It's not fair to modern players to make them wait the maximum 15 years before inducting them just because you think there will be a steroid accusation. What is going to happen in the next 15 years to make you change your mind on Bonds, or Piazza, or Bagwell? Testing didn't occur 10 years ago so we will never know if those players did or didn't cheat. I want to see the greatest players of the last 25 years put in the Hall, not have this same debate every year for the next three decades.

 

The funny thing is there are several players already in the Hall, who if their careers started 10-15 years later would have trouble getting in because people are more suspicious now.

Rickey Henderson - played until he was 45, led the league in steals at age 39 then had one of his best season in '99 with the Mets at age 40.

Nolan Ryan - still throwing 100 mph heat 25 years into his career

Reggie Jackson - hit more HRs in his 30s than 20s.

Paul Molitor - good, but not great player who had trouble staying in the lineup during his 20s. Then at age 30 he starts cranking out 200 hit seasons

 

I'm a big fan of Jim Thome, but it is weird that he gets a pass while so many people are convinced Bagwell juiced, even though there is no proof. Coming up they were both skinny players that hit very few HRs in the minors. They transformed over the years into heavily muscled sluggers. I believe Thome did it through hard work and not chemicals, but it makes me wonder why we don't give Bagwell the benefit of the doubt.

The other side is we need to elevate our opinion of they players we know didn't cheat - Griffey, Frank Thomas, and yes, Jeter. Just based on his actual stats Griffey was a no doubt Hall of Famer but not on the level of Mantle or Mays. But when you figure what he would have done had he roided up, he would be one of the 10 greatest players of all time.

 

A player in the late '90s once told me Rickey used steroids.

You know how Canseco says there's a guy in the Hall right now who used?

Again, I am not saying he did or didn't. I have no idea. I'm saying there's no possible way for me to pretend I know who did and didn't, so I use what I know, which is what they did on the field compared to their peers.

I voted for Rickey on the first ballot. I'll vote for Bonds on the first ballot.

Ironically, I'm actually more harsh than most when it comes to judging performance (I'm not sure I'll vote for Biggio), but I'm more lenient than most when it comes to judging character.