2013 MLB Hall of Fame Screechfest

First of all, I never concluded that anybody is clean, so please don't misrepresent what I'm saying.

I'm saying that in many cases, including Bagwell and Piazza, there is way too much doubt to punish them for it.

 

Talked to a friend of mine today who has a vote. His view of the steroids guys (known users or suspected): "We don't have to decide yet on them so I won't." He's OK with waiting for more info or context, or for a disclosure, or a redefinition and acceptance of that era. Assumes there are enough who'll vote for all the biggies to keep them on the ballot for their 15.

He also said this isn't fun anymore. And he feels confident about Maddux and Glavine being clean because "I saw them without their shirts."

 

"I don't have to take a position" is IMO a chickenshit attitude towards being a voter of any kind. If you're going to vote no, own it.

 

Assuming he wasn't kidding, that last part is EXACTLY why I think the standard before punishing a player should be higher. If you think you can tell just by looking at a guy, you are kidding yourself.

Trends and momentum seem to be part of the process, so when a guy is left off a ballot and doesn't get in, isn't it fair to say that at least on some level hurts his chances going forward?

I have yet to see any point made that counters my argument that if you are going to make the guys who accused wait, you have to make every player from this era wait. A big part of what you are waiting for is to see if they get busted, which means you are assuming certain guys are clean. The only thing that would shock me is if news doesn't break about somebody getting busted that nobody expects some time in the next 10 years.

 

then you're devoid of common sense. two words for you: bret boone.
even a buffoon such as yourself should have been able to figure that one out.

 

What about Brady Anderson?

Pretty much everyone agrees Brady Anderson was on the juice when he hit 50 home runs in 1996. I've always wondered why didn't he continue to hit for power? After his 50 home run season he hit 18, 18, 24, 19 8, 1 home runs. So what happened? In his prime Anderson looked like a mini Frank Zane. He must have been using the good stuff!

Even more curious are his home/road splits. HR 19/31 OPS+ 140/194

AB per HR:

1994 31.11
1995 32.12
1996 28.84
1997 31.59
1998 31.38

The 1996 season is higher by around 7.8% to the 1994 season and higher by 8.8% to the 1998 season, or roughly 228 HR (using the mid-point of 8.3%.)

 

That doesn't even come close to countering my post. That you seem to think it does clearly demonstrates who the true buffoon is.

Now, tell us again how Gaylord Perry never got caught?

 

actually it does, but you're never wrong.

 

I argued that we are very likely to find out that some guy nobody suspected was using performance enhancers, a reminder why it is so ridiculous to only question those who have been accused. Bret Boone's story does not counter that.

I argued that you can't always tell who is using by looking at them. The fact that some people say you could tell by looking at Boone doesn't counter that.

I argued that anybody who thinks they know everybody who used performance enhancers during the steroid era is kidding himself, which is why the only logical conclusion from the approach you, Dick and Joe are suggesting is to make everybody wait. Bret Boone's story doesn't counter that.

Bret Boone doesn't relate to my theory that being left off ballots can also hurt a player's chances of election to the Hall of Fame in the long run, mostly because Bret Boone really doesn't belong in a discussion of the Hall of Fame.

Given your response when I busted you on Gaylord Perry, I will politely suggest that nobody should ever listen to your advice regarding how to react if they are proven wrong on this site.

 

i argued, i argued, i argued.

and you never are wrong.

 

In other words, you know I'm right. You know you failed again. You just can't admit it, so you attack me again instead. Sad. Really, just sad.

 

I never thought OOP could be worse than he is on an economic disparity thread.

But for fuck's sake, this is insufferable. I even agree with his point, and I still want to slam my head through a wall right now.