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2013 MLB Hall of Fame Screechfest

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by MisterCreosote, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    Exactly.
     
  2. Captain_Kirk

    Captain_Kirk Well-Known Member

    Re: Biggio. In the 140 years of the sport, exactly 20 people have more hits than him. Spin the cybernonsense whatever way you want, but in the most basic element of the game--putting bat to ball and out of reach of the defense, only 20 men have done better of all that have played the game.

    And of the top 50 on the hit list, the only ones not in the Hall that could be eligible are Rose, Palmiero and Bonds.

    Analyze all you want, but that accomplishment alone warrants admission. Without a ticket.
     
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Those are good points. I always seem to fixate on the length of the throw. And, also, and probably unfairly, the relative difficult compared to the other middle-infield position.
     
  4. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    A second baseman basically is a shortstop with a weak arm, but it's still an important position, IMHO.
     
  5. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    Tim Raines is a Hall of Famer. Regardless of the numbers, if you watched him play and watched opposing managers and pitchers try to keep him off base, you would recognize this. Fuck passing the Eye test, he is the eye test.
     
  6. Captain_Kirk

    Captain_Kirk Well-Known Member

    Along the same lines, when the HOFs were all started, writers were the most logical people to vote because they were really the only groups, outside of the players and team personnel, to actually see virtually all the games and the players in them. Anyone else may have gotten an occasional glimpse attending a game when someone came to town, but most of what people learned was out of eyesight--radio broadcasts, newspaper boxscores.

    With the proliferation of games available on TV and the internet, that's certainly not the case anymore.
     
  7. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    No, it doesn't.

    It's not "cybernonsense." It's context. He had about 200 more hits than Harold Baines. That's not insignificant, but it's also not an enormous difference. Other than stolen bases, Harold Baines was a more productive hitter than Craig Biggio. If he had reached 3,000, would that "accomplishment alone" warranted admission?

    And yet, Harold Baines dropped off the ballot after five years, never garnering more than 6.1 percent of the vote. No one made a peep about it. But Craig Biggio gets 68 percent of the vote his first try and its some national travesty? Come on.

    (And I get the DH component of this. But Baines was an outfielder for longer than people remember.)
     
  8. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Yeah, good point. It's the same thing I said on a Journalism Topics thread about the de-valuing of sports reporting and writing as a viable paying profession. We're just not needed like we used to be.
     
  9. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    turning a 6-4-3 is much harder for a 2B than a 4-6-3 is for the SS. Arm strength is so important in moving to the right and pivoting to make the throw. You don't get to use your legs as much in the throw to 1st.
     
  10. Captain_Kirk

    Captain_Kirk Well-Known Member

    Based on the track record of others to reach 3K, the answer to your question re Baines would be yes.
     
  11. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    See, that's silly.

    And I know the good argument in response is, "Well, if Harold Baines had reached 3,000 hits, then Harold Baines would have been a better hitter. He wouldn't have the same career as now."

    But what if it took him two more seasons to get there? What if he limped there hitting .230 or .240 for two or three years? What if his career numbers - average, OBP, slugging - dropped as a result of his pursuit? What if he was actually hurting the White Sox by hanging on to get to 3,000 hits? What if he stalled at 2,995?

    Why is 3,000 so important?
     
  12. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    It's not that we're not "needed." Strong reporting/research and intelligent sports analysis is in demand ... and enough people will pay for it, though it's much tougher to make a living wage at it now.

    The problem is, so much of what passes for "sports reporting and writing" these days, at least when it comes to major sports coverage, is shit thrown against a wall. There are writers doing better analysis every day on websites all over the country ... without any locker-room or field access, without a paycheck from it, while also working a day job. What has, for instance, Bill Plaschke ever taught me about the Dodgers that I didn't already learn from Jon Weisman? Plaschke has nothing interesting to add about baseball, at least not on a daily or weekly basis. But hey, his rantings about "Google Boy" can run an overmatched and not-ready-for-primetime Paul DePodesta out of town. Great, now what?

    That's the type of writing that has become devalued, because anyone can start a blog and publish an opinion. Many have. But give me something intelligent, give me something thoughtful, give me something I don't know (especially if you're using your access as a reporter wisely to get it) ... and there are plenty of writers who do, both in the media and outside of it ... and lots of readers still eat it up.
     
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