2013 NBA Playoffs thread

RickStain:

At some point, you just want to scream. Ric Bucher wrote some thing on Sulia last night about how unimpressed he was with James Game 7 performance, and how James "looked lost" at times and that the truly great ones never had stretches like that.

At some point, those people just train their eyes are to search for anything that will confirm the opinions they've already formed, even if it's not reality. It doesn't matter that Kobe Bryant is statistically awful in late game situations (and has been fir years) and LeBron is one of the league's best, Kobe has the IT factor. Doesn't matter if LeBron is actually better than anyone in the league going to his left, Michael Jordan says anecdotally LeBron can't go left without shooting a jumper so it must be true. (Because if there is one thing Jordan knows, it's scouting/talent evaluation.)

The IT Factor might the silliest thing in sports. The guy just played one of the best Finals games in history. If you're from Cleveland, you get a lifetime free pass for hating his guts. You don't have to look at it rationally. Everyone else? Stop embarrassing yourselves.

 

Wow that bucher post is dumb. His argument is that when and against whom you score matters, then he proceeds to ignore that Lebron just scored 37 points against a dynastic team in game 7 of the freaking finals

 

Of course, Jordan making the finals in one of his first few years in the league and losing, as opposed to not making it at all, would not have made him a worse player, and should hypothetically make his legacy even more impressive, not less, even though he wouldn't have been 6-for-6.

 

You can compare James to Jordan as basketball players not as icons. Jordan was a great young player on a Championship UNC team in a classic final. He was not the #1 draft choice, he was not a self-proclaimed King and did not enter the league as "the next basketball Messiah". He went to a team that previously strived to be mediocre and stayed with them.

Jordan's career path is legendary, from being cut in HS to UNC to being frozen-out[sic] at the All Star game to the beatings by the Pistons to winning 6 champions, 6 Finals MVPs. Did he ever need a 7th game to win a finals? Then there's Nike. Jordan was the face of an industry.

James is a great player but he's not an icon, and never will be.

Jordan was hated and Beloved, at the same time.
James is hated and respected, but not loved.

 

Aren't you the one who argued vigorously that reporters should show coaches great deference in press conferences?

 

That's the thing, and Heyabbot put it well. Lebron may well be Jordan in 92, where he's just getting rolling and he may win the next five titles. At that point, we'll be debating Jordan vs. Lebron as the best basketball player of all time wtih legitimate arguments on both sides. Right now it's a little too early for that discussion.

The difference is that Jordan was an icon, and Lebron, for now at least, is just a great basketball player that many people don't like. Even if the media knew Jordan was a jerk, his image to fans was that he was a great guy who got to where he was by some combination of talent and outworking everyone else. The marketing of his image, Space Jam, "Wanna be Like Mike" song and the videos about him - he was almost heroic to people.

Lebron's jerkiness is well-known thanks to 'The Decision,' which might have been one of the worst marketing moves I've ever seen, even if the proceeds did go to a charity. Plus, Lebron is viewed as not really earning his greatness in the sense that there has probably never been a time in his life where Lebron was not the best player on the court. He's much more physically gifted than any of us could dream, and while that's true of Jordan, Lebron's talents seem almost a gift from God more than anything else.

 

I don't think that LeBron is a jerk at all. I think he's most likely a pretty good guy. I think that he made some painfully awkward missteps trying to brand himself in a social media and altered advertising landscape that Jordan never really had to navigate.

 

Is Jordan still Jordan in the day and age of 24/7 sports coverage? The 80's version of this board would have had a poster like 83 Devil trading him because he was no Magic or Bird. Bird and Magic are winners. There would have been some iconic cell phone shots of Jordan partying and gambling. Can you imagine twitter and tmz during Jordan's retirement? Maybe LeBron needs to punch a teammate, gamble, party and cheat on his wife for it be acceptable to cheer for him without being labelled an asshole like Batman suggests you are in his epically stupid post on the previous page.

You are not an asshole if you cheer for domestic abusers, cheaters, rapists, and players with a variety of different felonies but god forbid you cheer for a guy who made a colossally stupid PR move in the decision. Get the fuck over it.

 

Part of James' problem is he went from HS to the NBA. These guys are especially coddled, indulged and spoiled; they lack maturity that comes from disappointment and having to work with others as an equal or subordinate. They lack education, not intelligence neccessarily, context and perspective. THis isn't to say that college kids that come into the NBA can't be stupid, self possessed jerks, but the straight from HS and even the one-and-done guys are uniquely immature.

James is a product of that, though he's not terrible, he just doesn't have perspective. Everything he's come into contact with since he was a teenager has revolved around him. He's the center of the world as he knows it becuase he knows no other life. Hence, great player to which fans are indifferent as a person.

 

83 Devil. I love it! I hope that wasn't a typo.

 

83 Devil wins today's funny. Very good.

 

No, just the opposite, in fact.

Most of us are perfectly content to wait 8, 10, 12 years to see how it all plays out.

But it's YOU --- and people like you --- who are in such a rush to scream "Not as good as Jordan!" three nanoseconds after the final buzzer sounds. Who are in such a rush to have "legacy" discussions about a player who's 29 years old and compare his accomplishments to someone who played until he was 40. Criticizing someone because he MIGHT --- just might --- be "only" the second- or third- or fourth-best player to ever play the game. And then downplaying what accomplishments he does have because he doesn't have "it."

BTW, the Cowboys have won ONE playoff game since LeBron was 12 years old. "But he's a frontrunner!!!" Criminy.

What I've been saying for, oh, about three years now.