2014 Pro Wrestling Thread

I found Jericho's books awesome, but Flair's book is obviously suspect, given that he's not the world's greatest record keeper. Like just reading it, some parts seem a bit too "made up" to be correct. They are all worth reading though. Bret Hart also has a decent book - it's exhaustive and drags at some parts, but it's a good history.

Also, if you like shoots, there have been some really good ones done with Kevin Nash. He's pretty candid about his time in WCW and WWE, and I went from being not really all that into him to being fairly sold on his accounting of events.

 

Essay (choose one)

1. How did the Fingerpoke of Doom ruin World Championship Wrestling?"

2. Who do you feel is more to blame for the demise of the company? A. Hulk Hogan, B. Eric Bischoff, C. Kevin Nash, D. Vince Russo, E. Other. Why do you feel this individual deserves blame?

3. David Arquette: Embarrasing champion or victim of circumstances? Provide evidence to support your argument.

 

There was a good story in the second Jericho book, where Y2J, like a lot of people in WWE, was concerned when Hogan, Nash and Hall returned to revive the NWO, and Jericho asked the Undertaker about it. Taker replied just as you and Ferrara did above: the NWO guys wouldn't be a problem because Vince was the boss and they were going to do what Vince told them, in contrast to the WCW, where there were a lot of bosses.

 

It didn't ruin WCW.

WCW was fucking horrible long before the Fingerpoke of Doom. Look at what they did with the World Title in the year-ish prior to the Fingerpoke of Doom. The whole Sting debacle at Starrcade '97, stripping Sting of the title the next night, giving Sting such a lame title reign, Savage winning solely to drop the title back to Hogan, Goldberg winning the belt on an episode of Nitro and working someone like Curt Hennig on PPV instead of Hogan, playing to a Goldberg/Jericho feud without ever paying it off, missing the final few minutes of the great DDP/Goldberg match at Halloween Havoc, and ending the Streak by tons of BS outside interference.

The Fingerpoke of Doom was just yet another in a long line of gigantic issues with WCW. It may have hurt WCW some, but ruin it? Eh, too big of a statement.

You can't blame Russo since WCW was already in serious trouble when he was brought in. Did he help kill WCW faster? Sure, but he's not responsible for the actual demise of the company. Kevin Nash was a wrestler. If the creative team and the powers that be were stupid enough to give him power, then that's their fault. It's a case of Nash never should have had the power in the first place. Hogan may have played a GIGANTIC part in turning the quality aspect of WCW into shit, but he helped out a lot too. This goes for Bischoff too in that Hogan and Bischoff helped WCW finally make some money. Did Hogan have too much control? Yes, but again like Nash, you can't really fault him when he's not the one who gave himself that power. Bischoff did a lot of stupid things, but again, he turned WCW around from being a money loser (Despite being an awesome workrate company) into actually making money. Without Bischoff, WCW may have not even made it into the 2000's.

WCW was screwed from the very moment Ted Turner bought the company from the Crocketts. He didn't know how to run a wrestling company and since he didn't really care much, he just allowed a band of misfits to run the company instead. As time went on, Turner lost power and influence in the parent company and WCW found it impossible to stay in the good graces with their owners. WCW died because it was never managed correctly. Say what you will about McMahon, but he is a sports entertainment company head. The WWE is his business, the thing he cares about most. As a result, effort, care and a little knowhow gets put into the company.

So whose responsible for WCW's death? Everyone involved with AOL, Time Warner, Turner, the different combinations, ect. Hell, we're seeing the death of a very similar company in a similar circumstance with TNA.

 

I was joking about the essays. You didn't have to write them.

And you failed the test for the mere reason of failing to follow directions. You wrote on two questions, when the directions clearly said to choose one.

 

I know you were joking, but I had fun answering them.

Please don't give me an F.

 

There was another good story from Jericho's first book from when Hall and Nash first showed up in WCW. Can't remember if it was a Nitro or a house show, but Jericho was there early, and so were Hall and Nash. They'd gotten there in mid-afternoon, because that's what they were used to doing for WWE shows, and the three of them were the only wrestlers in the building. Nobody else cared or knew enough to be there early to go over things and prepare.
From that, to what their reputation was by the end of WCW, is pretty amazing.

 

There was another one from Jericho's first book in which Alex Wright and Hardbody Harrison (who is currently serving a long prison sentence for controlling women as sex slaves) got into a fight because they were arguing over who would be the heel in their match.

There was another one in Bret's book in which he was given five minutes notice to do a promo and they didn't tell him if he was a face or a heel.

Come to think of it, with the recent stories of Vince rewriting Raw minutes before the show is airing, it seems like the E is making some of the same mistakes WCW did.

 

Russo was on JR's podcast too and made the point that when he walked into WCW, so many of the guys in the locker room didn't listen to him or weren't behind the plan because he didn't have the implied backing of whoever was in charge like he did in WWF. In WWF, when Russo told a talent about an idea it was coming with the "this passed through Vince too" stamp.

I think the sale to AOL was a huge part of the death of WCW too. Ted didn't mind losing a few buck being in the "rasslin" business but the board and the stocks weren't going to stand for it.

I think it's a a wider scale version of why the E can't take the risks they did back then because they're publically traded now.

 

From the Oct. 20 Observer:

- Bound for Glory, which is TNA’s version of Wrestlemania, did horribly, although the matches themselves were OK. It’s believed to be the lowest buy rate ever for Bound for Glory, and possibly one of the lowest ever for TNA. Given their uncertain TV situation, no matches were unannounced until the last week before the show, similar to how WCW operated in its death knell. Also, because of tape delay issues with titles, the heavyweight championship and tag titles were not defended. Because they’ve taped a ton in recent weeks, Bound for Glory was the last scheduled show until the UK tour starts on Jan. 7.

- Mike Tenay’s contract with TNA expires Jan. 4. If they don’t get a new TV deal, it’s expected that he’ll be hired by New Japan for the English language stuff they want to do.

- TNA talent with expiring contracts – Tenay, Samoa Joe, others – have been complaining that they can’t even get a response from the office on their deals expiring. It’s not expected that anyone will be signed between now and Jan. 7 unless a TV deal comes through. Dixie Carter has said a “major announcement” will be coming soon, but she has consistently been saying this.

- Daniel Bryan had another setback, as his arm is not regaining strength in training. He might need Tommy John surgery, and he’s now seen as doubtful for a return at or near the Royal Rumble.

- Justin Roberts and the WWE couldn’t reach terms on a new contract, and he wasn’t re-signed as a result. They have Lillian Garcia, Eden Stiles, Tony Chimel and Kyle Edwards (Arda Ocal) all on hand still, who can all do ring announcing, so his bargaining positioning wasn’t that strong. Also cut was William McClinton Jr. (Willie Mack), who was on a developmental deal but hadn’t been in the ring yet for him. Something in the medical screening was a no-go.

- SyFy has announced a 12 Monkeys TV show that will be airing at 9 p.m. Fridays, so yes, it’s expected that Smackdown will be moving to Thursday, unless they change the TV show’s schedule. The debut is Jan. 16.

- Cena vs. Orton is the ninth time the two have met in a singles match on PPV.

- Billy Corgan’s TV show on Resistance Pro Wrestling has been cancelled because of budget cutbacks at AMC.

- Noelle Foley, Mick’s 20-year-old daughter and a sometimes-guest on Cheap Heat, is now training to become a wrestler. She’s a big fan of the product, at least judging from her Cheap Heat appearances.

- Michael Elgin allegedly almost had a breakdown at some indy shows on Oct. 11 and Oct. 12, because the crowds for them were 68 people and 45 people.

- It’s been reported Batista has landed the lead henchmen role of Hinx in the new bond movie, which is part of the reason he’ll be unavailable to wrestle. He’s down to about 240, but still looks muscular.

- They have some interesting McMahon family stock numbers. Vince obviously owns the most, at 39.2M shares. However, it was believed that Shane was second, because Stephanie had sold some earlier this year. However, Shane either sold some previously to fund his outside ventures, or Stephanie has been getting more stock because of her continued involvement with the company. Stephanie has 2.5M shares, and Shane has 1.5M shares. It’s trading at close to $13, so obviously, they’re all doing OK.

- The Randy Savage DVD scheduled for Nov. 18 will have a documentary portion on it.

- Sales are down for a planned tour of Mexico, and as a result, the company might try to mend some fences with Mysterio.

 

Gherig,

How many live shows do you think you've been to over the years?


What was your favorite live match you've ever seen?

 

That's all? I'd have figured that number would be at least double that.