2015 Baseball HOF ballot released

Della9250 · Dec 3, 2014

Murray Chass rails against Piazza for PEDs all the time, bringing up nothing but rumors and back acne.

Of course he also believes Biggio used PEDs on the word of one of his colleagues too

RecoveringJournalist · Dec 3, 2014

Della9250 said:

Murray Chass rails against Piazza for PEDs all the time, bringing up nothing but rumors and back acne.

Of course he also believes Biggio used PEDs on the word of one of his colleagues too
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I'm sure the day is coming when we find out that a 5-11, 185-pound guy was "juicing"

Guy_Incognito · Dec 3, 2014

RecoveringJournalist said:

From Pearlman's book...

And then there's this, from Jeff Pearlman's book, "The Rocket That Fell to Earth:"

As the hundreds of major league ballplayers who turned to performance-enhancing drugs throughout the 1990s did their absolute best to keep the media at arm's length, Piazza took the opposite approach. According to several sources, when the subject of performance enhancing was broached with reporters he especially trusted, Piazza fessed up. "Sure, I use," he told one. "But in limited doses, and not all that often." (Piazza has denied using performance-enhancing drugs, but there has always been speculation.) Whether or not it was Piazza's intent, the tactic was brilliant: By letting the media know, off the record, Piazza made the information that much harder to report. Writers saw his bulging muscles, his acne-covered back. They certainly heard the under-the-breath comments from other major league players, some who considered Piazza's success to be 100 percent chemically delivered. "He's a guy who did it, and everybody knows it," says Reggie Jefferson, the longtime major league first baseman. "It's amazing how all these names, like Roger Clemens, are brought up, yet Mike Piazza goes untouched."

"There was nothing more obvious than Mike on steroids," says another major league veteran who played against Piazza for years. "Everyone talked about it, everyone knew it. Guys on my team, guys on the Mets. A lot of us came up playing against Mike, so we knew what he looked like back in the day. Frankly, he sucked on the field. Just sucked. After his body changed, he was entirely different. 'Power from nowhere,' we called it."

When asked, on a scale of 1 to 10, to grade the odds that Piazza had used performance enhancers, the player doesn't pause.

"A 12," he says. "Maybe a 13."
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There isn't a single named source. How can you fail to understand how someone might distinguish between that and a failed drug test or a mention in the Mitchell Report?

JC · Dec 3, 2014

He was far bigger than 185.

RecoveringJournalist · Dec 3, 2014

Guy_Incognito said:

RecoveringJournalist said:

From Pearlman's book...

And then there's this, from Jeff Pearlman's book, "The Rocket That Fell to Earth:"

As the hundreds of major league ballplayers who turned to performance-enhancing drugs throughout the 1990s did their absolute best to keep the media at arm's length, Piazza took the opposite approach. According to several sources, when the subject of performance enhancing was broached with reporters he especially trusted, Piazza fessed up. "Sure, I use," he told one. "But in limited doses, and not all that often." (Piazza has denied using performance-enhancing drugs, but there has always been speculation.) Whether or not it was Piazza's intent, the tactic was brilliant: By letting the media know, off the record, Piazza made the information that much harder to report. Writers saw his bulging muscles, his acne-covered back. They certainly heard the under-the-breath comments from other major league players, some who considered Piazza's success to be 100 percent chemically delivered. "He's a guy who did it, and everybody knows it," says Reggie Jefferson, the longtime major league first baseman. "It's amazing how all these names, like Roger Clemens, are brought up, yet Mike Piazza goes untouched."

"There was nothing more obvious than Mike on steroids," says another major league veteran who played against Piazza for years. "Everyone talked about it, everyone knew it. Guys on my team, guys on the Mets. A lot of us came up playing against Mike, so we knew what he looked like back in the day. Frankly, he sucked on the field. Just sucked. After his body changed, he was entirely different. 'Power from nowhere,' we called it."

When asked, on a scale of 1 to 10, to grade the odds that Piazza had used performance enhancers, the player doesn't pause.

"A 12," he says. "Maybe a 13."
Click to expand...

There isn't a single named source. How can you fail to understand how someone might distinguish between that and a failed drug test or a mention in the Mitchell Report?
Click to expand...

This isn't court. There doesn't need to be proof. If someone thinks you used, they can decide not to vote for you just based on that.

The votes the last couple years are proof of that. If the voters thought Piazza was clean, he sails in on the first ballot with about 90 percent of the vote.

3_Octave_Fart · Dec 3, 2014

What will Pearlman's next big-tent, low-hanging-fruit book be about?

Guy_Incognito · Dec 3, 2014

My only point is that someone can reasonably distinguish him from other users with more direct evidence. Looking back at the thread, I see that you may not even disagree with this, which might explain why we seem to be talking past each other so I'm happy to back out.

Michael_ Gee · Dec 3, 2014

My point remains, why did baseball leave even players it named as users in the Mitchell Report eligible for the Hall? No problem banning Pete Rose. If this was such a stain on the sport's honor, why leave it to the writers to be the cops? I mean, besides gutlessness. Of course, many writers LIKE playing God. Doesn't make it right, though.

outofplace · Dec 3, 2014

JC said:

He was far bigger than 185.
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You do realize RecoveringJournalist was writing about Biggio, not Piazza, correct?

If so, were you arguing that Biggio was really larger than his listed weight? Baseballreference.com has him listed at 5-11, 185.

Of course, guys that small and smaller have been busted for PED use, but people keep on insisting they can just tell by looking at a guy if he juiced or not.

outofplace · Dec 3, 2014

Guy_Incognito said:

JC said:

Don't be OOP.
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If I choose to believe it or not, you don't see how that can be a rational line of demarcation for voters? And I would put Braun on the evidence side (and Ortiz, and Pettitte etc.).

Are you lumping Bagwell in with Piazza and Bonds?
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Meh. Why be reasonable and fair when you can punish guys based on guesswork?

RecoveringJournalist · Dec 3, 2014

outofplace said:

JC said:

He was far bigger than 185.
Click to expand...

You do realize RecoveredJournalist was writing about Biggio, not Piazza, correct?

If so, were you arguing that Biggio was really larger than his listed weight? Baseballreference.com has him listed at 5-11, 185.

Of course, guys that small and smaller have been busted for PED use, but people keep on insisting they can just tell by looking at a guy if he juiced or not.
Click to expand...

Right, I was talking about Biggio. Piazza is 6-3.

I dealt with Biggio during the late 1990s and I think 185 is about right. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less.

outofplace · Dec 3, 2014

Michael_ Gee said:

My point remains, why did baseball leave even players it named as users in the Mitchell Report eligible for the Hall? No problem banning Pete Rose. If this was such a stain on the sport's honor, why leave it to the writers to be the cops? I mean, besides gutlessness. Of course, many writers LIKE playing God. Doesn't make it right, though.
Click to expand...

There is some evidence in the Mitchell Report that is shaky at best. In no way would it be fair to ban every player named.

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2015 Baseball HOF ballot released

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