2016 Baseball Hall of Fame Nominees

In the last 50 years only 3 catchers played who are Hall of Famers? Bench, Fisk and Carter. Really?

Not arguing that voters were bending over to find an excuse for Pedro, but Piazza is every bit the catcher that Pedro was a pitcher.

 

I think Pedro was a good pick. Just saying I Rodriguez is probably the closest offensively to Piazza and was excellent defensively. Think he should get in also.

 

Has anybody made a serious argument that Pedro doesn't deserve to be in?

 

Not sure that pushes him over

The primary reason I say that is Pedro was a great pitcher, but during his career you could say that Maddux, Clemens and Johnson were at least his equal and that Smoltz and Glavine were in his neighborhood. Piazza's over all game was simply better than his peers. Pedro was one among a handful, Piazza stood alone.

 

Ivan Rodriguez hit .296 / .334 / .464 over 10,270 plate appearances.
He had 2,844 hits, including 572 doubles, 311 homers and 51 triples, scores 1,354 runs and drove in 1,332.
He was a 14-time all-star in a 15-year span, the first 10 consecutive.
He won seven Silver Sluggers, the first six consecutive.
He won 14 Gold Gloves, the first 10 consecutive.
He was an MVP, and a has a ring where he was a LCS MVP
All that is as a CATCHER
His career WAR is 68.4. The only catchers with more are Bench (75) and Carter (69.9). Piazza is at 59.4, behind also Fish and Yogi.
How is that not a Hall of Famer?

 

Mauer is going to be a fascinating case. If you go with him as a catcher, he's already top 10 in WAR for the position in 9th place. I have no idea how voters are going to treat him though.

 

Fan Graphs has him at 28th among catchers. I realize different sites use different formulas for WAR, but I doubt he is in the top 10 in WAR if you include only games played at C. He has played less than 2/3 of his games at C and that ratio isn't going higher. During his decline he will not add much in terms of WAR.

 

And a much bigger difference than cjericho is making it out to be. It also leaves out defense and steals, two areas that were big advantages for Bagwell over Delgado.

 

He has hardly played catcher over the last four years. To show how dominant Rodriguez was, look at Mauer's 33% runners caught. Only 920 career games at catcher and can't really see him going back there.

 

For career WAR in catching, the order goes: Bench, Carter, Rodriguez, Fisk, Berra, Piazza, Dickey, Hartnett, Cochrane, Simmons and Mauer. Everyone to Simmons is over 50. Mauer is at 47.8, 2.3 behind Simmons.
Right now 76 percent of his games (920 of 1,214) are at catcher.

I get he hasn't caught in two years. If he plays 150 games in 2016, his catcher percentage drops to 67 percent. If he does that through the next two years of his deal, he gets to 35 he would still have played 55 percent of his career at catcher. So that's why I have no idea how he will be treated -- a guy with probably around 55 career WAR and a lot of bullet points during a his prime at a premium position.

If you still classify him as a catcher, he'd be around sixth in WAR for the position with an MVP and three batting titles. At that point does it only matter what his counting stats are?

 

Check the numbers. Under his offensive stats, he has played almost 1500 games. His total games figure under fielding stats do not include his games at DH.

Joe Mauer Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

The 47.8 WAR figure is his career total, not as a catcher. His is not in the top ten for WAR for only games at catcher.

Major League Leaderboards » 2012 » Catchers » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

 

I think Mauer is going to have trouble getting in, barring a sudden resurgence, because he has moved off catcher and isn't adding much value to his case at this point. To me, he clearly doesn't have a good "compiler" case, and his peak probably falls a bit short as well. The injuries broke up what should have been an incredible run from 2006 to 2010 or 2013, depending on when you want to mark his decline. He's only made six All-Star teams and didn't win a World Series. He has the MVP award, but only four Top 10 finishes in the voting.

Ivan Rodriguez should be an easy vote in; I'd expect first or second ballot, unless there is some weird whisper campaign on him like there is with Bagwell that I'm unaware of. He ticks all of the boxes when it comes to advanced stats, conventional stats, black ink stuff (AS games, WS title, MVP). I'm not sure how you keep him out short of a major scandal, or some loon starting a "well pitchers hated pitching to him you know" campaign that somehow gets traction.