3,000

Hell, I gave him that. But my problem is: he was a "dominant starting pitcher" for just three seasons. He was a marginal All-Star for a couple more seasons, and an unhealthy picher, at best, the rest of his career. ... I'm not saying he wasn't dominant. I'm saying he wasn't dominant for nearly long enough to be a Hall of Famer.

THE guy? You're telling me that there's not even a hint of a debate over whether to hand it to Schilling, Pedro, Randy Johnson or Clemens -- hell, even John Smoltz, in terms of postseason clutchiness -- in THE game?

Schilling doesn't stand out *that* much in "his generation," sorry. Yes, I'd give him the ball without hesitation in any big game. But to say that nobody else "from his generation" would get the ball over Schilling -- that he's THE guy -- is ridiculous. You can make an argument for any one of those five guys in a big game. Schilling is not a lock for that distinction, not at all.

 

So Evans and Rice get to knock in Boggs with their extra base hits and watch Boggs get in the HoF because of his dink singles?

Michael - serious question - if at any time during their careers (exept that last year when his back gave out) - wouldn't you have taken Don Mattingly in a straight up trade for Wade Boggs?

Yet Captain Mattingly and his 9 Gold Gloves don't get the HoF while Delta Force videos - get laid for Wade - does? Still bugs me (as if that wasn't obvious).

 

- No on Schilling yet. Too few great seasons - the gaps in his career remind me of McGwire. 2 great post-seasons, but don't forget that if Rivera doesn't make an error, we remember Schilling as the goat who gave up the series winning HR to hero Soriano.

- No on Morris. Who would you rather have for game 7, El Duque or Clemens? Doesn't matter to the conversation, only 1 is a HOFer, and its the one who was never an essential member of a title team.

- The Boggs argument, especially from a sabre-savy guy is lunacy, though I'll accept all Mattingly arguments.

 

As far as "big game" - I'm a Schilling guy but I'd take either Pedro or the Big Unit in their prime for one game (and Smoltz is a coin flip with Schilling).

As far as Morris being a "big game" player - yes game 7 was an incredible 10 inning performance but lets remember that overall in the playoffs he was just 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA. Compare that to Schilling's 8-2 record and 2.02 ERA in 2 more starts than Morris. People who support Morris always overlook his losses. For those who want ERA - Schilling has a career 128 ERA+ while Morris was just 105 (which is just above average for his whole career).

Wade Boggs is the anti-Christ

 

I don't remember the HR to Soriano - I remember the bloody sock and it should be noted that it can be argued that Schiilling sacrificed his 2005 season that night he took the mound in October of 2004.

 

I'd put Smoltz in before Schilling or Morris.

Clemens, Johnson, Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz.

To me, Schilling & Morris are just out with Cone, Mussina and for that matter, Roberts, Sutton, Niekro etc.

 

You have a carefully selective memory.

 

Who are you? My wife?

 

Chris, not taking anything away from those unforgettable Schilling performances. But my amateur impression is that his 2005 season would have been a wash whether he took the mound two more times in 2004 or not.

No doubt that he could have ducked out sometime in 2004 and probably spared himself serious damage.

And Guy, I don't think Schilling would have been remembered as a goat if not for Rivera's error. Schilling would have been the guy who lost Game Seven 2-1 to the greatest dynasty of the past 35 years. No shame in that at all.

 

Goat may be a bit much, but the Soriano HR, now all but forgotten, would have been historic & he'd have been the Eckersly (better?).

 

BYH, you're on. But that brings us back to the Schilling vs. Clemens big game argument. They faced off in Game 7 and Clemens was the better big-game pitcher that night on the road than Schilling was (but not by much). My feeling on Schilling is like some others. Not a shoo-in by any means, but he has the potential to make it with a couple of more strong seasons. Clemens' success in his 40s kind of pressures Schilling to have at least three more solid years.

 

And Mussina was better than Schilling that night. & the next year Washburn (or whoever) was better than Mussina. So what?