AL and NL MVPs

Keep twisting yourself in knots, fanboy. We all know what happens when your fanboy side gets engaged. Say goodbye to logic.

 

Hey, I don't like it either and am not using it as an end-all be-all, or anything-all. I just don't like the stat that a pitcher faced 956 batters compared with a batter getting "only" 726 PA's. Felt like the writer was trying to throw something out there ... 230 more batters! OMG!

If the top 2 candidates were Kershaw v. McCutchen, I'd probably be 95% Kershaw in this case.

But there's a reason catchers have been named MVP just 8 times -- it's the most demanding position on the field and most times teams will deal with a light-hitting catcher if he goes above and beyond behind the plate.

Before Posey in 2012 (24/103/.336, caught a perfect game, on a division champ) a NL catcher hadn't won in 40 years. And we're talking about seasons in which Piazza went 35/112/.318 and 40/129/.362 and 40/124/.303 and 38/113/.324 -- on top of his catching duties. He did finish 2nd in '97 behind Larry Walker, who had 9 more homers, 6 more RBIs and 28 more stolen bases (more valuable on the bases! /oop) while hitting just .04 better (.366). Piazza would've gotten my vote 7 ways till Sunday that season.

So now, Lucroy's BA has slipped to .299 thanks to a 4 for 28 slump with 0 homers and 2 RBIs in the last 8 games. For the season he's at 13 homers, 60 RBIs and a .367 OBP. All of those numbers are well below what Posey did in '12, which makes you appreciate what Posey did (and still does).

Last year, Cutch went 21/84/.317/.404 -- the .404 being the only "great" stat.

Even Gibson in '87 went "just" 25/76/.290/.377.

I'd love to hear what any Brewers beat writers here have to say about Lucroy.

 

Xan, I think thee 956/726 thing is more a myth debunker than anything. Because the major argument against pitchers winning MVP has been that they aren't as involved with the product.

And I'm sorry I was snarky about it. You deserve better than that.

 

Better in more categories, including doubles which will be the first time a catcher led the NL in double in forever. Who's twisting himself in knots? You are the most self-unaware person in the history of the internet.

 

The guy who tried to argue that the player with four stolen bases made more of an impact with his speed than Carlos Gomez and his 28 steals is clearly the one tying himself up in knots, fanboy. Now you want to go on about more doubles while ignoring Gomez's superior home run total. Once again proving that you toss all logic out the window when you have a rooting interest in a subject.

 

With 30 games to play, Lucroy is the best defensive catcher, stat-wise, in the NL.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/errors

Posey is thisclose behind but still isn't SUPERIOR!

So would you rather have a catcher with 44 doubles, or a center-fielder with 21 homers?

 

That's like asking, "Would you rather have big or small?"

You need to give more context. To take it to an extreme, I'd rather have a center fielder with 21 home runs, 43 doubles, and a .350 batting average than a catcher with 0 home runs, 44 doubles, and a .220 batting average.

 

But we know the latter example doesn't exist in this case.

13/60/.299/44/NL-best .995 fielding/NL-best 1.6 dWAR/etc/etc/etc

Gomez is having his breakout season, no doubt. And if having 24 more stolen bases is going to be the deciding factor in this vote then hey, give the caballero the MVP.

I would say the top 4 candidates are (in no order): Kershaw, Lucroy, McCutchen, Stanton.

There's no way you can penalize Cutch for missing time because of the beanball.

 

Yes, you can, but he hasn't missed that much time yet. It isn't penalizing. It is only giving him credit for what he does rather than assuming what he would have done without the injury, which is completely fair.

Trying to boil the comparison down to Lucroy's doubles or Gomez's home runs was one of the worst arguments made in this discussion. As Dick pointed out, it is severely lacking in context. And the defensive statistic? Sorry, the statheads have not created good defensive metrics yet. Most of them even admit it, so I'm not interested. I'll agree that Lucroy is a very good one, but I'm not interested in using statistics that don't work.

And shot, that would make sense if I had a rooting interest in the discussion. I don't. I'm not the Brewers fan. Tony is.

 

Of course you can punish McCutchen for being injured and missing time. Less games played equals less value to team.

 

OOP, I wasn't making an argument for the doubles. I was just playing off of you because your SB thing on its own merit seems off-base (so to speak). I'll even give you the dWAR is not quantifiable yet, but you cannot argue 4 errors in 750 chances -- concrete numbers. It makes what McCann is doing for the Yankees even more impressive -- 1 error.

You expect a center-fielder to have superior offensive numbers across the board. A catcher, not so much.