AL Cy Young

And two more against the Mariners.

 

Your way of thinking is so ridiculous.
Yes, it is good enough to earn a win - but the point of this whole thing IS IT'S OUT OF HIS CONTROL!

And yes, my previous example was ludicrous, but it made my point perfectly - you said you'd rethink your theory if something like that happened, which means your theory is, indeed, flawed. You can't have it both ways. You can either factor in wins as a secondary stat, or make it the No. 1 factor for your choice. You can't arbitrarily change it when you please to make an argument work for you.

 

Greinke was 2-0 against the Indians last year. Cliff Lee was 5-0 against the Royals in 2008. Lincecum went 4-0 against the D-backs and A's last year.

 

Hernandez has struggled with the Rangers (6.38 ERA in four starts), but I like what he's done against the other contenders ...

3 starts against Yankees -- 3-0, 2 CG SO, 26.0 innings, 0.35 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, 31 Ks, 8 BB
2 starts against Twins -- 1-1, 15.0 innings, 2.40 ERA, 0.93 WHIP, 13 Ks, 2 BB
2 starts against White Sox -- 0-1, 15.0 innings, 1.20 ERA, 0.87 WHIP, 11 Ks, 3 BB
2 starts against Padres -- 1-1, 15.2 innings, 2.30 ERA, 0.83 WHIP, 15 Ks, 2 BB
1 start against Reds -- 1-0, CG, 9.0 innings, 1.00 ERA, 0.67 WHIP, 9 Ks, BB

 

Without getting too deep into the weeds, I must point out that beating the weak sisters is about the most important factor in being a winning baseball team, so saying that a particular pitcher has a good record against patsies is actually an argument in favor of his being a Cy Young winner.

 

If you want to look at that, let's look at Zack Greinke's 2009 Cy Young season. The three highest scoring teams in the AL were the Yankees, Angels, and Red Sox. (And then there's a pretty big drop off before you get to the Twins, Rays, and Blue Jays.)

Greinke didn't start one game against the Yankees last year. (Hasn't this year either.) Halladay started five against them.

Greinke started two games against the Angels. A loss and a no-decision in two losses. Halladay started against them Twice, winning both games.

Greinke started and won one game against the Red Sox. Halladay started against them four times, he had two wins & two losses.

If you give Halladay Greinke's schedule and vice-versa Halladay wins the Cy Young walking away.

 

I think looking at who a pitcher has faced this season is complete bullshit. Much like wins and losses, it's completely out of a pitcher's hand.

In that case, no Yankee should ever win the Cy Young because they don't have to face the best lineup in baseball. Their own.

Greinke didn't face the Yankees or Red Sox for the first five months of the 2009 season and Peter Gammons was whining about that. Then he went out and threw seven shutout innings against the Red Sox in September and that pretty much shut everyone up.

 

That loss and no decision last year for Greinke against the Angels? It came with a 0.56 ERA and 0.88 WHIP, allowing just two runs (one earned) in 16 innings.

Also, Halladay and everyone else got to pitch a time or two against the worst offense in the AL and maybe the majors: The Royals. Greinke, obviously, didn't.

 

Yeah, I know. He's a very good pitcher who had a great year.

The fact remains that he had three starts against the three most potent offenses in the league & Halladay had eleven.

You don't think that makes a difference. Do you think that if the Angels faced him four or five times, they might have caught up with him?

Yeah, ok.

Because I don't discount Wins, I've shown my ass.

I'm not really concerned if you don't appreciate my opinion. You have a one track mind.

I'm much more willing to look at several factors than you. I don't think Wins is the only important stat, but I'm not going to discount it.

 

Maybe. Maybe not. Perhaps Greinke gets in the batters' heads and continues to baffle the Angels and Red Sox when he meets them. Can't say one way or another, really.

What if Halladay faces the Rangers or Tigers -- two teams that torched him last year -- four or five times, would Halladay have caught up with them? Again, who knows. Best not to speculate and simply deal with the facts that we do know.

 

To get back to THIS season:

Cliff Lee is 2-4, 4.18 since going to Texas and 10-7, 3.09 overall.

Clay Buchholz is 15-5, 2.26 (leads AL)

CC Sabathia is 17-5, 3.02.

Lee is fading out of this discussion.

 

While I think it would have changed the numbers somewhat, I don't necessarily disagree with you.

But I was responding to heyabbott comment about Sabathia getting 4 of his 16 wins against the 0rioles and 2 against the Royals.

If you want to go down that path, you've got to look at all of it.