al mvp race

Yes. When numbers don't match up with human perceptions, it's clear that the people behind the numbers are just being dishonest haters.

 

the texiera-jeter debate is classic apples-oranges. the table setter having a terrific season, playing a better shortstop than most folks thought him capable of again, vs. tex, a power hitter with a gold glove that no doubt has helped jeter's defense, too.

i watch almost every game of this team and i'm torn on which is their mvp, let alone the league's.

however, i'm still not convinced mauer should yet be in the discussion. and there are certainly some folks on this board who refuse to give jeter credit for anything.

should the twins come back from 4 1/2 down and pass two teams in their division to do it, my tune would certainly change on mauer. but if not, i just don't see him as a no-brainer choice. sorry to those who disagree.

 

I'm not even sure if you are trying to argue or you're being sarcastic.

Some people here really do think it's some kind of Yankee hater thing if a poster dares to say Jeter doesn't belong in the top three for AL MVP. Mauer, Teixeira, Miguel Cabrera and Michael Young all have strong cases to be ahead of Jeter. Some people here would put Kendry Morales there, too, though I probably wouldn't.

And shockey, to say Mauer doesn't even belong in the discussion but Jeter isn't getting enough credit is a joke. The Twins are in contention. They may not make it in, but they are contending and he by far the most important reason why. And Mauer has been better than Jeter this year by any objective comparison.

Since you ignored this earlier, I'll show it to you one more time.

Batting average: Mauer .373 - Jeter .333
Home runs: Mauer 25 - Jeter 16
RBI: Mauer 78 - Jeter 59
Runs: Jeter 87 - Mauer 76
Stolen bases: Jeter 21 - Mauer 3
Slugging percentage: Mauer .622 - Jeter .477
On-base percentage: Mauer .443 - Jeter .397

I know you like to dismiss those last two, but they belong in the discussion as much as Jeters' edge in steals belongs. And despite having 113 fewer at-bats, Mauer has still been the more productive player. He also makes the biggest positive impact defensively of any of the MVP candidates.

The only real edge Jeter has is the team around him. That's a foolish way to make the decision.

 

listen up: we simply have different philosophies about how much his team's success should be factored into the mvp discussion. i think it should factor greatly, so two stats you chose to ignore is:

yankees -- 79-43
twins -- 63-64

like i said, if the twins rally to win the division i go with mauer. if they continue to play .500 baseball, sorry, someone else is my choice. not aying it would be jeter, but to shrug off his season reeks of yankees hating.

heck, if someone wants toargue that tex is their mvp, i can understand that. but a case could be made either way. i remember back in the day, several folks covering the '76 yankees thought mickey rivers should've been the mvp over teammate thurman munson.

again, the chicken-and-egg debate, the table-setter vs. the rbi man. whatever. i'm not saying that jeter should be the al mvp. doesn't much matter to me.

i started this thread because i was surprised at the support for mauer, a great player enjoying a great season for a MEDIOCRE team as of now. so if the season ended today -- which it doesn't -- you guys pick any top 3 you want. but mauer should not come out the winner.

just my opinion, obviously. but everything here gets twisted so much i just felt the need to reiterate my position.

 

I understand your position just fine. You want to judge these two players by the things beyond their control -- the talent around them. I want to judge them by what they are actually doing.

And it isn't a table-setter vs. RBI man thing, either. Mauer is on base much more than Jeter and only has 11 fewer runs scored despite being in a much better lineup and batting second and third all season while Jeter bats leadoff.

Jeter isn't even the MVP of the Yankees. Mauer is the MVP of the AL, at least so far.

 

if you say so 'tis must be true. i give up.

may the season play out and the voters cast their ballots. whoever wins it -- mauer, jeter, tex, the other players mentioned for having worthy seasons -- will certainly deserve it.

how's that?

 

And don't forget, Mauer also missed an entire month. Heck, Mauer has scored only two fewer runs than Teixeira despite playing in 20 less games.

 

If the numbers stay on the current pace and Jeter wins it, no, the winner will not be deserving.

I am far from the only one arguing for Mauer here. And I don't see how anybody can objectively pick Jeter over Teixeira. I'm sure somebody will try with the Captain Intangibles bullshit at some point.

 

Good point. I was trying not to give Mauer credit for time missed because I can see the argument against it. He probably would have more runs than Jeter right now if he had been healthy from day one, but he also could have worn down by now with an extra month of catching.

 

That's just dumb.

The Yankees have $145 million more to spend on payroll than the Twins. When do you factor that in?

Because the Twins can't pitch, Mauer can't win the MVP?

It's really a non-argument. You can keep repeating it, but it won't make any more sense.

 

Would the Twins be one game under .500 without Mauer?

Just saying.

 

The Twins would be out of contention.

I agree with the idea of figuring in team success, but to say a guy is disqualified because his team wouldn't make the playoffs if the season ended today is ridiculous and it ignores past precedent. And that is exactly the argument shockey is trying to make.

As I said. shockey wants to judge these players based on things beyond their control. I think they should be judged by what they can control. You tell me which is more logical.