al mvp race

my point on the yankee hatred is everyone here assuming my questioning of mauer's credentials is me trying to pave the way for a yankee. heck, i don't know if jeter or tex is the team's mvp, lt alone the league's.

 

That's not Yankee hatred. That is some members of the board holding you accountable for your posting history.

 

Kind of makes me wonder what stats he considers legitimate or pertinent to the MVP discussion.

 

his batting average is super, buck. but others point at other more modern abbreviated numbers to make their case on joe's behalf. guess what i am seeking from those in joe's corner because of his "historic" numbers is where does how his team finishes factor into your mvp vote?

like i've said, that's way up on my criteria chart. for others, not so much, i guess.

 

HR, RBI, R, Team W, etc.

 

If you aren't going to consider OBP and slugging percentage as well, it's hard to take your argument seriously. It also shows why you might consider Jeter as the Yankees' MVP over Teixeira. Well, that and your love for Jeter.

There is more to Mauer's case than his batting average. If you haven't realized that yet, you really aren't even trying.

 

ARod since June 24, has been HUGE for the Yankees.

 

i'm a big all-around numbers guy, with emphasis on run production. sure. mauer's batting average shouts WOW!! no other number of his come close to wowing me.

i mean, everyone's going orgasmic over how historic a season mauer is having and i call b.s. for a catcher, gimme johnny bench's 45, 148, .293 season over mauer's any time. THAT was a historic season, in my books, one that makes mauer's pale in comparison.

listen, it's a personal bias, i admit. some guys go nuts over batting average. i appreciate batting averages fine, but it's not the most important measure to me.

 

Well, for me, team performance is a criterion, but ultimately, since this is considered the top individual award in the league, the most outstanding player -- who I do feel should be on at least a contending team -- is usually going to be a heavy favorite for me, simply because one player cannot make that much of a difference in a team game.

Mauer is, hands down, that most outstanding player this year. If his team was in last place, sure, I'd have to weigh that. But ultimately, Joe Mauer cannot turn eight Nick Puntos into a contending team, regardless of how "valuable" he is. And ultimately, the Yanks are still going to be contending regardless of Tex's presence on the field. That's just a fact.

And are you really going to argue that batting average, on-base and slugging, for god's sake, as "modern abbreviated numbers"? You're really going to go there?

At least spnited rails against VORP and other such replacement-value nonsense (as do I, for that matter.) You're railing against numbers that EVERYONE knows and understands. I don't get that.

 

Then how on Earth can you say Jeter is even close to Teixeira as the Yankees' MVP? Coming into today, Teixeira had 31 home runs to Jeter's 15 and 92 RBI to Jeter's 56. Despite the fact that he bats in the middle of the order and Jeter leads off, Teixeira had only eight fewer runs scored. Jeter's only real offensive advantage is in batting average and steals.

Sure, shortstop is a tougher position to play, but Jeter isn't nearly as good there as Teixeira is at first base.

And pardon me for repeating myself, if you really think the only thing Mauer has going for him is batting average, you aren't even paying attention. If you refuse to even consider OBP or slugging percentage, your argument is incredibly flawed. You probably want being a shortstop to count in Jeter's favor. Being a catcher should count even more in Mauer's favor, especially since Jeter is average at best defensively while Mauer is the best in the American League at his.

Just for fun, let's compare Mauer to Jeter, using the statistics before today's games. Obviously, batting average isn't even close (.378-.333). Mauer also had 10 more home runs (25-15) and 21 more RBI (77-56) than Jeter. Jeter does have 11 more runs scored (84-73). Again, his only real advantage is in stolen bases (21-3).

That is without even considering that Mauer had compiled those numbers in 119 fewer at-bats than Jeter. It does not factor in his massive advantage in slugging percentage (.641-.474) or his edge in on-base percentage (.448-.396). It also leaves out the fact that he has done all that while playing the most physically challenging position on the field at an incredibly high level.

In other words, I compared Mauer to Jeter statistically using your narrow methods (the Triple Crown categories) and it still heavily favors Mauer.

 

Batting average isn't the most important measure to me, either. And I don't remember anyone else saying that here, so I don't know where you're going with that.

Why does Johnny Bench setting an all-time home run and RBI record for catchers make Joe Mauer's setting an all-time record for hitting and slugging as a catcher "pale in comparison"? They're both historic seasons, and they both led the league in quite a few categories. Nobody's disputing the greatness of Bench's 1970 season.

Bench, of course, won the MVP that year. In part because his dominant season was made even more impressive because he was a great catcher, the most demanding position on the field.

Mauer's case is quite similar.

 

know what? i'm really just now examining the numbers. and now i'm more resolute than ever that mauer won't be in my top three.

his numbers are wonderful, no question. but he's played in only 97 games! that, coupled with most likely finishing well out of the playoffs, eliminates him in my mvp mind.

sure, you can look at it two ways: hey! imagine his numbers if he had been healthy?

but he wasn't. and perhaps those games he missed were why the twins couldn't remain in the race. or perhaps that is why he's been fresh enough to keep the average so high.

regardless, someone much wiser than i -- buck, perhaps -- aould remind me when a guy who played for a non-playoff team and missed a quarter of the season was the mvp.

again, seasons don't get pro-rated, correct? a-rod is another guy who missed too much time to gennerate much support -- along with his other issues -- but certainly a strong case could be made for him given the yanks' record with him back and tex's incredible numbers since a-rod returned.

don't get me wrong. i'm in no way making a case for a-rod. but mauer's mvp case, to me, is similarly hurt by the number of games he's missed.

the season he is having despite that is further testimony to his greatness. just not further evidence that he should be this year's al mvp.