All-purpose hockey thread...

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

Mr Goon,

McCauley as a fourth liner--he's too good to play that little. Better to move him if he legitimately can't crack the top three. I can't see Goc being better, especially in a third-line role. Worst ... trade ... ever (Leafs division). They would have been better to give McCauley, Boyes and a first rounder away for nothing than have to accept the piece of shit formerly known as Owen Nolan.

YHS, etc

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

The Bruins' motivation is simple -- the 1972 champs just saved themselves about $2 mil in salary.

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

Wow. Harsh much? ;D

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

Mr J

Actually Nolan, a born creep, might be an example of why you shouldn't jump the gun in judging a trade. Nolan was barely removed from the Olympics and a couple of years removed from beating a favored St Louis team in the first round almost single-handedly. The Leafs thought that they knew what they needed to compete at the next level. They knew their team. One problem: The Sharks knew Owen Nolan better than anyone, realized that there was a separation between rep and fast-fading talent. Media reception of Nolan trade: Huge Leaf win. In the long haul (especially with his price tag) a third-rounder would have been overpaying.

Bruins know Thornton better than the rest. O'Connell didn't stand up for Thornton, fact. And everything that has happened since, from chilly relations to the trade, well, people presume that it all issues from O'Connell and the Bruins' front office abandoning Thornton. Occam's Razor, I know. BUT why didn't O'Connell defend Thornton in the first place? Don't know the reason but one thing seems likely: Boston's disenchantment with Thornton could date farther back than the playoff with Montreal. If you are going to trade Thornton you can't do it with him on the sidelines, sitting out, contract not done. (You'll get two bits return on the dollar.) Sign him for waht someone else will think he's worth. Let him establish worth in the market. And deal him. I'm not saying that the deal is going to work out, but if Thornton weren't signed and playing and playing well, the Bruins would have got less for him. It's a bit of game theory--think of a phone-in show bringing in John Nash to analyze trades.

YHS, etc

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

All good in theory, halfm, except this is simply the latest in the long illustrious line of Bruins stars dating back to Bobby Orr that got run out of town. But hey, more money in Jacobs' pockets.

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

Possibly. But on the Sharks' depth chart, McCauley is listed as the fourth liner with Scott Parker and Nils Ekman. Goc is listed as the third line center between Josh Langfeld and Milan Michalek.

McCauley obviously plays more minutes than your typical fourth line center, especially on power play and pk units.

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

NESN's staffers wrote about the Thornton trade...

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/netminders/

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

Bruins swap Thornton for trio

01:00 AM EST on Thursday, December 1, 2005

BY JOE McDONALD
Journal Sports Writer

BOSTON -- In desperate need of a shakeup, the last-place Boston Bruins traded away their franchise player late last night.

Boston dealt team captain and former number-one overall draft pick Joe Thornton to the San Jose Sharks for three players -- Wayne Primeau, Brad Stuart and Marco Sturm.

"We felt we needed to shake up the team and sometimes you have to make some difficult decisions to better the team," said Bruins general manager Mike O'Connell. "We feel we received three players who can help us immediately.

"Brad Stuart is a top-four defenseman who is strong at both ends of the ice. Sturm is a proven scorer, a good two-way forward who is a terrific skater, and Primeau is a solid, two-way player who has good size at the center position."

O'Connell went out of his way to sign Thornton to a three-year, $20-million deal prior to this season. With that contract now gone, Boston has more money to make another deal in the next few days.

"I was blindsided," Thornton said in a conference call. "On the one hand it's disappointing, and on the other it's good to start over again. Obviously when you don't win, there's going to be changes. . .so I've got to move on."

The 6-foot-4, 225-pound Thornton said he was encouraged by the Sharks' success in 2004, when San Jose went to the Western Conference finals.

"They had a great run there, and they've got great goaltending, obviously," Thornton said. "I know Patrick Marleau, and he's a great center man. And hopefully we can be a great 1-2 punch."

The three players the Bruins got in return are earning $5 million a year combined, as opposed to the roughly $6.6 Thorton was earning.

Thornton, considered one of the top players in the NHL, leaves Boston with nine goals and 24 assists in 23 games this year.

"Obviously, I'm pretty shocked," said Bruins goaltender Andrew Raycroft. "You throw different ideas out there about a trade, but for it to be Joe is a big surprise."

This is a bold move for O'Connell and the Bruins to make at this point.

"I don't know much about the guys we're getting," added Raycroft, "and I don't know what Jumbo (Thornton) is thinking. We're going to take a few days to analyze this. There are a lot of different ways this can go. I'm sure it will take a few days to pan out."

News of the Thornton deal also came as a complete shock for another teammate.

"I heard about a trade and I was hoping it was not me," said Brad Boyes, who previously played with all three players in the Sharks organization. "When I heard it was Joe I couldn't believe it. I was shocked and it completely caught me off guard. Joe was our captain, he's an unbelievable guy and one of the best players in the world. But it's the nature of the beast. (Being traded) has happened to me and it's not fun. Hopefully, it works out.

"He's been the face of the Bruins Boston is his town and his city. I'm shocked. He's Joe Thornton. He was awesome to the young guys and he was one of the best guys, bar none, but this is the business part of it. It's tough."

Primeau, a center, was the Sabres' first-round choice, 17th overall, in the 1994 draft. He has five goals and three assists in 21 games.

Primeau played two seasons with the Lightning before he was traded to Pittsburgh for Matthew Barnaby in 2001 and played two-plus seasons with the Penguins. He was acquired by San Jose for Matt Bradley in 2003 and enjoyed his best offensive NHL season in a Sharks uniform in 2003-04 when he established career season-highs in all offensive categories with nine goals and 20 assists for 29 points in 72 games. Primeau's career totals are 47 goals and 89 assists for 136 points with 563 penalty minutes in 520 career NHL games.

Sturm, the Sharks' first-round choice, 21st overall, in the 1996 draft, has six goals and 10 assists in 23 games.

The 6-0, 195-pound native of Dingolfing, Germany, has scored 20-plus goals in three of his NHL seasons, including his best offensive NHL year in 2002-03 with 28 goals and 20 assists for 48 points. His career NHL totals are 128 goals and 145 assists for 273 points with 242 penalty minutes in 553 career Sharks games.

Stuart, the Sharks' first-round choice, third overall, in the 1998 draft, has two goals and 10 assists in 23 games. Stuart is in his sixth NHL season. The 6-2, 220-pound native of Rocky Mountain House, Alberta, finished second in voting for the Calder Trophy as the league's rookie of the year after his rookie season in 1999-2000 when he had a career-high 10 goals with 26 assists for 36 points.

"Players like Joe Thornton don't come available very often," San Jose general manager Doug Wilson said. "He's a big, physical guy with a lot of ability. He also knows a lot of our players very well. He should fit in well with our group.

"He's a special guy. The combination of he and (Patrick) Marleau down the middle should be very strong for us."

Thornton scored more than 20 goals in each of his last five NHL seasons, including two with 30 or more. In 2003-04, he led the team in scoring with 23 goals and 50 assists.

--The Associated Press contributed to this report

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

Where I disagree with the analogy - and it is a good comparison - is that Joe, 26, is just entering the prime of his career where Nolan, 30 at the time, was on the way out of his prime at the time of their respective deals. In addition Joe Thornton has done far more in his career than Nolan has ever accomplished. Since the 1999-00 season when he scored 60 points in 82 games he has average far more than a point per game, meanwhile Nolan has hit the point a game plateau just four times in his entore career - only once while with the Sharks (99-00) and three times while he was still with quebec (91-92, 92-93, and 94-95). Nolan was clearly on a downwardslide.

There is the train of thought that the team who got the best player in the deal won the trade - and that clearly is San Jose. While I like Brad Stuart, he ahs to be considered a bust when his expectations are taken into account. I also like Sturm, always admired his grit and two-way game, but he is not a front-line player, second line tops, and Primeau is as pointed out before, a spare part that will likely end up on the third and fourth line. If I'm Boston, I'm looking for at least a first or second rounder or both, or top prospect that gives hope to a player of the future to fill Thornton's hole. The big problem I have with what Boston got is that the three players they got all of them are basically at the ceiling of their game - I think Stuart might get a little better, but I highly doubt a Norris in his future, a few all-star games at the most.

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

End of two at MSG. Rangers 2, the Pittsburgh Crosbians 1. The teams combined for 51 shots, 24 for the Rangers and 27 for Pittsburgh.

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

Rangers win 2-1. Henrik Lundqvist stopped 34-of-35 shots, and Marek Malik--there's that man again!--scored the game winning goal. http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=2005120113 New York's ONLY PROFESSIONAL SPORTS FRANCHISE THAT CAN CLAIM COMPLETE OWNERSHIP OF FIRST PLACE IN ITS DIVISION, is 11-3 in its last 14 games. http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/5131462



And, to top it off, Stan Fischler proclaims the Blueshirts to be Cup contenders!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/5131410

 

Re: New NHL vs. the old NHL

Mr beat,

Tom Renney "sensitive": Stan really knows how to hurt a guy. Oh well, if it doesn't work out with the Rangers Renny's a favorite to work for Team Canada (women's).

YHS, etc