All Purpose NBA Thread I

It's no coincidence that Odom and and others 'vanish' when Kobe's around. Odom and #24 do not play effectively together. Odom looked like a beast when Kobe was out. Now he's back to his usual, Lakers - version self: tentative, hesitant and secondary to the immature #24.

As far as Cassell holding up, Livingston needs more minutes anyway. I'm fine with Cassell playing less. Cassell will be around when he needs to be, for the postseason.

The Fakerz squeezed into the playoffs last year. Utah, New Orleans, Houston, Denver are all either better and / or healthier this year. We'll see where the Lakers end up.

But if you're looking to watch games in Staples after the regular season ends, I'd invest in Clippers tickets. Not sure Big Chief Triangle and his crew are going to make the finish line in that regard.

And if you're worried about Cassell's health, then I know you're concerned about #24's health. At least he avoided another misstep in Eagle, CO this time when he got the surgery done.

Somewhere, Shaq's laughing his fat ass off with his new ring.

Lebron, D - Wade, Carmelo and others are the new faces of the league, the young guns. Kobe's begun the long descent into NBA 'trivia question answer' status. As in, "Who was that backcourt guy in between Penny and Wade that Shaq carried to the NBA Finals?"

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Karma's a bitch, huh? Maybe #24's wife can buy him a ring this time to make the pain go away.

 

Are you serious?

 

the new nba:
kobe, 28, is washed up and needs to retire.
sam cassell, soon to be 37, is just fine and will hold up all season.

ok.

 

The new NBA: A player's age is important. A player's wear - and - tear is just as, if not more, important than chronological age.

Point #1:

Cassell's career minutes played, including postseason: 30, 300 (approx.).

Kobe's career minutes, including postseason: 30, 000 (approx.)

So at thirty minutes a game, Cassell's body has all of 10 more games on its career odometer than Kobe's. Yeah, what a fool I am to juxtapose the two; real specious comparison by me. Maybe I can find a guy with, like, 30,200 career minutes to compare Cassell to.

Point #2:

Kobe missed two regular - season games last year. Cassell missed 4 regular - season games last year. Through 5 games of this young season, Kobe's already missed two. Cassell's missed zero.

Cassell has said he'd like to play fewer minutes, to pace his body over the season and be fresh for the presumed postseason grind. You think Kobe and his ego are ok with pacing himself over the year? Yeah, me either. You can't win scoring titles scaling back your minutes. You can't win MVP's cutting your playing time.

So, you take two players with similar mileage on their bodies. One wants to be cautious and measured. The other, though admittedly younger, isn't known to be cautious and measured. Even when his team has demonstrated (or, more likely, precisely because his team has demonstrated) it can function well without him, Kobe has to be the focal point, has to score his 81 or whatever. Which guy are you more worried about breaking down? The guy who wants his backup to get more minutes, or the guy who seems to continually have something to prove? The guy that plays below - the - rim or the high - flyer? If you're the owner of the Clippers or the Lakers - businessmen used to dispassionately assessing risk - it's an easy choice.

Point #3:

Sam Cassell has had one surgery in his career, hip cartilage surgery in 2004. Sam Cassell has struggled with hamstring injuries throughout his career, but never to the point where surgery was required. Kobe Bryant has had three surgeries in his career, shoulder (2003), knee (2003), and knee (2006). The two knee surgeries were on the same leg.

Before the start of the current season, a number of NBA reporters suggested that Kobe, after ten grueling regular seasons in the NBA combined with multiple deep postseason runs, has entered the point of his career where his body is starting to go on him. Multiple surgeries on the same body part (especially to the legs in a sport as reliant on the trunk as basketball) are suggestive of a body struggling to cope with the demands put on it. There are only so many times that your knee, e.g., can come back from surgery, regardless of age.

Cassell has had one surgery, two years ago. A surgery that was successful and that he has put behind him. Kobe has had three surgeries, two on the same knee. The last knee surgery was this past offseason. He's not completely up - to - speed from the surgery. How long's the knee going to hold up before another surgery is required? It was three years between the first two knee surgeries, so what's the guess on the time before the next surgery? Two years? A year? This is medical reality, it doesn't matter what I or anybody else thinks. There's a trend here, and to ignore it is ignorant, foolish, or both.

I'll ask it again: 2 guys. Same mileage. One's older, but the older guy is actively looking to scale his minutes back. The younger guy doesn't seem to be wired in such a way to want to scale his minutes back. Older guy plays on the floor. Younger guy plays above the rim. Older guy has had one surgery. Younger guy has had 3 surgeries, including just coming off of his second surgery on the same knee. Older guy wants to contribute. Younger guy wants to be an MVP.

Who you more worried about getting hurt? Who you more worried about pushing himself beyond his body's limits?

There's your new NBA; same as the old NBA: Everybody gets only so much fuel in the tank at the start of his career. When the fuel's gone, it's gone, and there's no getting it back. And if you think that rule doesn't apply to you, you'll eventually learn different. Kobe's learning that now. His knee is, so to speak, 'schooling' him. Cassell never tested the theory in the first place. He never tried to burn himself out with too much, too fast. That's why he's still incredibly productive at 37. Kobe will be long since retired at 37. At least I hope he is. Nobody wants to see Kobe repeat the "Jordan with the Wizards" fiasco, with Kobe similarly missing breakaway All - Star dunks. Kobe's too proud for that. He could never be the 'puzzle piece' player that Cassell is. It's all top - billing - or - bust for #24.

 

(continued from previous post)

Shaq's got 4 rings, with 6 Finals appearances. Two of these appearances and 1 ring were accomplished, miraculously, without Ocho. And he would have 2 rings sans Kobe if Nick Anderson doesn't choke a couple of free throws in game 1 against the Rockets. Shaq bookended his Kobe years with two Finals appearances, kind of like the Bushes bookended Clinton's presidency with their own. Kobe has - and will remain at - 3 rings, with 4 Finals appearances. All of Kobe's Finals appearances came with Shaq. These aren't coincidences. Chuck Taylor asked me if I was serious. It doesn't matter if I'm serious, these (and those contained in the Cassell - Kobe comparison above) facts are serious. You know, those stubborn facts, those things which supercede the realm of both opinion and what we wish were true?

Kobe, after all his time in the league, has never learned how to trust his teammates, how to fully utilize their talents. Jordan learned that. And MJ never would've done what Kobe did in game 7 last year against the Suns. There's no minimizing or parsing that. That was a Pippen move, not an MJ move. And it wasn't the first time Kobe pulled this petulant and immature trick.

Kobe is incredibly talented, but he's fatally flawed. And if he hasn't learned after 10 years in the NBA, when is he going to figure it out? That's why he's never going to win a ring as 'The Star' of the show: He doesn't have the right mental and emotional make - up for the job. It's also why the Lakers - with a vastly superior coach and a proven system - will be looking up at the Clippers for the rest of the season.

So, for all the Kobe - coddlers, Kobe - enablers, and Kobe - lovers, enjoy it while you can. That is, in the regular season. Get amped up for the next 81 moment, or for the next irrelevant "I'm trying so hard to look like MJ" fist - pumping session at the end of a non - series - clinching playoff game. You know, a series where "your guy" will end up quitting on his team in the deciding game. For me, the carousel ride is over. I've moved on to the next generation of Wade, LeBron, etc. The Shaq - Kobe thing is over. It ended this past summer. The history books have been written. Shaq won, Kobe lost. Next story?

 

Have you watched the Lakers this year?

 

Ok, you can't tell me the Lakers would've made the playoffs last year without Kobe. And in the playoffs, Kobe actually began to dish the rock and they almost took out the Suns in the first round.
I don't know if you've watched any Lakers games this year but Kobe's been playing GREAT teamball. I love how you judge an NBA team/player after 5 or 6 games. There are 82 GAMES IN A SEASON. And you've already declared that Sam Cassell is better then Kobe Bryant. Now people, I got alot of heat for what I said about Vick but what this guy is saying about Kobe has to take the cake. Hell, I'm a Kobe hater and this guy is making me defend the guy.

 

Ignore the trolls and they shall go away. Let's hope it doesn't ruin a good thread.

 

*sigh* You write facts and you get this. Some people are committed to willful ignorance. Facts be damned. And we wonder why the public distrusts media. Never let the facts get in the way of your opinion, eh hachat? It's so much easier to blindly assert something than to have to actually defend your position. I'm betting you spend a lot of time in the editor's office.

 

Kobe . . . Good . . . Shaq . . . sucks! . . . Kobe . . . best . . . ever! I like to breathe from my mouth . . . Ummmm . . . Doughnut! Me write column now. . . eat cookie!

I'll try to keep it at your level, hachat.

 

Rokski, you give the word "indent" a whole new meaning.


EDIT: If you think Sam Cassell is better then Kobe then you need to leave.

 

Wow. I see you've learned at the hachat school of bait - and - switch debate. If you can't attack their arguments, by all means attack their indentation. That's much more difficult.

I'll prepare myself for the inevitable spelling attack.

Look, I'm just messing around. You seem like a cool dude, Chuck, so I'll get to the point of what you're saying.

I do not think Sam Cassell is better than Kobe. That wasn't my argument. My post comparing the two was in response to someone else's. The point of my Cassell / Kobe post was to say that, despite their respective ages, it's not a good bet that Cassell breaks down before Kobe does. That's it. That's all I was saying. Some wiseass tried to merely use their ages to assert how obvious it was Cassell would break down first. My post was a statistical refutation of that premise. Hey, Cassell might get hurt tomorrow and be out the whole year for all I know. But it's not as simple as Kobe's 28, Cassell's 37.

That's it. That's the main thrust of my Cassell / Kobe post.

Later.