All-purpose, running Tim Tebow sucks/is a deity thread!

You keep throwing out this "Oh, but he runs too," nonsense. Which is fine, because that is a factor. But I don't bring up his passing because he's a pedestrian passer or merely a below-average passer. He was a HISTORICALLY BAD PASSER in 2011.

Couple of points when comparing Tebow to Dilfer:

1. Tebow is playing in an era after various rules changes which, like the 1978 rules changes, have opened up the passing game to unprecedented heights. There were more passing yards in pro football (3,675 yards per team) than any year in NFL history. The average yards per attempt (7.2 an attempt) tied an NFL record set in 1983. You may have noticed the multitude of records that fell this year and have been threatened every year since they started playing touch football both with receivers and quarterbacks.

Yet, despite how much everything is stacked for the passing game and how the rules absolutely beg you to throw the ball, Tebow's passing numbers are just miserable, less than 50 percent on his completion percentage and passer rating 10 points below the league average.

2. Even while playing in an era not as open and with passing numbers considerably worse than they are now league-wide, Dilfer had a better passer rating in 2000 (76.6) than Tebow in 2011 (72.9). He completed 59.3 percent of his passes, which was better than the league average at the time (58.2) and just below the league average now (60.1). By comparison's Tebow's 46.5 percent completion percentage is not up to the league average in ANY NFL season since 1952.

So sure, he can run some. But man, he put up passing numbers that would be considered bad back when Mel Blount was still allowed to assault your wide receiver as he ran down the field. If he's going to put up numbers as bad as what he put up this year, he better run for more than what he did.

One more point: By the basis by which Tebow worshipers generally defend him - "He just wins," - 2001 Dilfer>2011 Tebow and it ain't even close.

 

"he just wins" is not the basis. How he wins -- needing to do something in the fourth quarter -- is incredibly different from what Dilfer did. (Orton with the Bears was another one who just had to hand off with a big lead most of the time.)

I don't know if a passer rating 10 points below the league average is HISTORICALLY BAD. You can try to prove it, but you will come up short. And how Tebow wins is by running. It makes him a different player.

I am really not understanding how you don't see that. But I am understanding how you can think Oklahoma State was better than Alabama and how Drew Brees' interceptions really shouldn't matter all that much in comparing his year to Rodgers or Brady.

First team to 50 wins! That's football!

 

Tebow might try throwing the damn football. He gets sacked more often because he wants to try to make plays with his feet. No offensive lineman is going to be able to block a guy for five-six seconds while the QB piddles with the ball.

And Tebow piddled with the dang ball, make no mistake.

In Tebow's 11 starts, he was sacked 33 times. In Orton's five starts, he was sacked nine times, five in the first game.

The rate of sacks went up despite the fact that Denver threw the ball less once Tebow became the starter. Denver didn't stop blocking, they have a QB that piddles around with the ball and tries to play hero with his feet too often.

He took 225 yards in 33 sacks this year. I bet you in at least half of those sacks, he didn't get the ball out on time and piddled with it.

 

They are running a different offense than they were with Orton.
You haters really will go to great lengths to disparage the guy.
I hope ''piddling'' doesn't involve checkdowns and progressions and so forth- you know the things a quarterback should be doing.
This isn't a video game.

 

A 46.9 completion percentage is below the league average for any season since 1952. That's historically bad in my book.

And again, it's like you give Dilfer no credit for doing what it takes to build a lead. He completed 60 percent of his passes, moved the chains when needed and, in what wasn't a coincidence, instead of being behind in the fourth quarter, the Ravens were typically ahead.

In saying Dilfer and Tebow's seasons were comparable, I'm not discounting Tebow's late heroics. In dismissing Dilfer, however, you are ignoring all the good work Dilfer did to build leads Tebow struggled to build.

And you can't say it was just Dilfer's defense and not say the same about Tebow. The Broncos were fantastic in a lot of games where they'd be behind at the end. I mean, seven points in a loss to Kansas City and 10 in a win. Ten points to the Bears. Thirteen against the Chargers and Jets. They played fantastic defense in those games, as good as the defense the Ravens played in 2000 (and, might I add, in a more offensive era).

 

No, but the ninth-worst completion percentage by any starting QB (min. 14+ starts) in the Super Bowl era is historically bad.

Code:

                                                                                 
                                     Game Pass                                   
Rk           Player Year Age  Tm  Lg   GS  Cmp Att  Cmp%  Yds TD Int Rate Sk  Y/A
1    Bobby Douglass 1972  25 CHI NFL   14   75 198 37.9% 1246  9  12 49.8 32 6.29
2     Doug Williams 1979  24 TAM NFL   16  166 397 41.8% 2448 18  24 52.5  7 6.17
3         Jack Kemp 1966  31 BUF AFL   14  166 389 42.7% 2451 11  16 56.2    6.30
4      Scott Hunter 1972  25 GNB NFL   14   86 199 43.2% 1252  6   9 55.5 13 6.29
5      Bob Avellini 1976  23 CHI NFL   14  118 271 43.5% 1580  8  15 49.4 24 5.83
6      Joe Ferguson 1973  23 BUF NFL   14   73 164 44.5%  939  4  10 45.8 20 5.73
7       Vince Evans 1981  26 CHI NFL   16  195 436 44.7% 2354 11  20 51.1 23 5.40
8          Jim Hart 1970  26 STL NFL   14  171 373 45.8% 2575 14  18 61.5 26 6.90
9         Tim Tebow 2011  24 DEN NFL   14  126 271 46.5% 1729 12   6 72.9 33 6.38
10        John Hadl 1968  28 SDG AFL   14  208 440 47.3% 3473 27  32 64.5    7.89

 

You're right. They are running a more run-oriented offense than the did with Orton. Which makes it more inexplicable why a QB who attempts fewer passes gets sacked MORE.

Except the QB fiddles too damn long with the ball. Or his offensive line hates him and wants him to get hurt. I doubt it's the second one.

 

All but two of the 10 (Vince Evans and Doug Williams) came before the 1978 rules changes.

What's notable to me is you have to go 26 years BEFORE the 1978 rules chances to find a year where Tebow's completion percentage would even be at the league average.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Here, I thought I was just watching people play Madden this weekend.

Don't worry. We get it. Everything that goes right is all Tebow. Everything that goes wrong is the rest of the team.

Tebow's flock love to talk about those fourth quarters, but they also love to ignore the fact that his incompetence during the first three quarters often put his team in the hole in the first place. Did he even have a game where he was decent during the first three quarters other than Minnesota and Pittsburgh?

 

Or maybe teams are blitzing the shit out of him to see how he responds to pressure.
Could it be. Nah.

 

Well, if you want to bump the criteria up to 1978:

Code:

                                                                                   
                                       Game Pass                                   
Rk             Player Year Age  Tm  Lg   GS  Cmp Att  Cmp%  Yds TD Int Rate Sk  Y/A
1       Doug Williams 1979  24 TAM NFL   16  166 397 41.8% 2448 18  24 52.5  7 6.17
2         Vince Evans 1981  26 CHI NFL   16  195 436 44.7% 2354 11  20 51.1 23 5.40
3           Tim Tebow 2011  24 DEN NFL   14  126 271 46.5% 1729 12   6 72.9 33 6.38
4    Vinny Testaverde 1988  25 TAM NFL   15  222 466 47.6% 3240 13  35 48.8 33 6.95
5       Joe Theismann 1978  29 WAS NFL   14  187 390 47.9% 2593 13  18 61.6 42 6.65
6        Steve Grogan 1979  26 NWE NFL   16  206 423 48.7% 3286 28  20 77.4 45 7.77
7       Doug Williams 1980  25 TAM NFL   16  254 521 48.8% 3396 20  16 69.9 23 6.52
8          Jeff Komlo 1979  23 DET NFL   14  183 368 49.7% 2238 11  23 52.8 40 6.08
9          Mike Pagel 1983  23 BAL NFL   15  163 328 49.7% 2353 12  17 64.0 40 7.17
10       Steve Grogan 1978  25 NWE NFL   16  181 362 50.0% 2824 15  23 63.6 21 7.80

 

I wasn't speaking to you.
I was speaking to Bryan.