And me without my armbands....

Why do people in other countries hate us so much? Maybe because we don't think niceties such as fair trials and lawyers are needed for them. Just lock 'em away and throw away the key if someone even says theys looked at the U.S. flag crooked.

Hearts and minds, baby. Hearts and minds.

 

Yeah the world hating the US so much helps explain why every country has immigrants coming to our shores.

Calling Bush a Nazi - is that part of the hearts and minds campaign too?

 

If everybody else hates us why do so many of them want to live here?

 

The problem, Lou, is that you've never learned the lesson that to make a caricature of someone's position is not the same as refuting it.
This, to me, is the nut section here:

"A draft Bush administration plan for special military courts seeks to expand the reach and authority of such "commissions" to include trials, for the first time, of people who are not members of al-Qaeda or the Taliban and are not directly involved in acts of international terrorism, according to officials familiar with the proposal.
The plan, which would replace a military trial system ruled illegal by the Supreme Court in June, would also allow the secretary of defense to add crimes at will to those under the military court's jurisdiction. The two provisions would be likely to put more individuals than previously expected before military juries, officials and independent experts said."

Nothing there about citizens or non-citizens. Nothing there about "enemy combatants." In fact, it specifically mentions people who are not combatants at all. Anybody they want to grab and throw into this authoritarian system, they can.
Phrases like "not directly involved in acts of international terrorism" and "add crimes at will" make me nervous, especially with this bunch in charge, since they've shown themselves more than willing to ignore constitutional and statutory limits whenever they want to. This, in fact, is an attempt to get around the Hamdan decision by pretending it doesn't exist. This is power that they want because all they want is power. This is a lawless administration with a lot of the reflexes of a junta. We disagree, I guess, on how dangerous that is.

 

I'm pretty sure somebody is running planes into our buildings and blowing up soldiers.

 

If you guys think America's global reputation hasn't taken a hit lately, you should consider traveling overseas, draping an American flag over your shoulders, and seeing what kind of reception you get.

 

You don't have to worry about much flag-draping from this crowd.

 

I can attest to that, even without the flag over my shoulders.

 

Fenian - what can I say?

You start off by saying:

This is coming from someone who tried to make a Nazi comparison joke in his thread title. And you talk about caricature?

You also mentioned the trampling of the Bill of Rights in your original post - yet no mention of the Bill of Rights is made in that entire article you linked to.

You point out a section that you feel is the crux of the argument you wish to make but this section clearly says:

The military trial system referred to was for foreign fighters found in civilian garb. Cases for individuals like Johnny Walker Lindh are handled separately under the rules and laws set up for US citizens. As far as the "not directly involved" stuff - that's word parsing. A person who gave intelligence to a terrorist raid but did not pull a trigger could easily be said not to be "not directly involved" with the raid. That's doesn't make that person any less dangerous an enemy.

One final point - you throw out the phrase "authoritarian system" but completely miss the fact that this proposed legislation is being sent to Congress. What kind of authoritarian / fascist works within the legal system? If Congress passes the legislation then the Supreme Court still gets to rule on whether it's legal. You've thrown about the phrases "Nazi", "fascist" and "authoritarian" so much that I'm afraid that you've forgotten what the words actually mean or refer to.

 

You are aware, of course, Sweet Lou, that this president has written more presidential signing statements than all the presidents in history combined so that he can disregard laws passed by Congress at his pleasure?

Sounds kind of authoritarian to me.

 

BUT BILL CLINTON GOT A BLOWJOB!

 

Did you think at all before typing that out?

Hate to burst the bubble of ignorance, but the Bill of Rights are the freedoms we, in this country, believe every human being is entitled to. Not just the ones living within our borders. Not just the ones lucky enough to born within this country's borders. Suggesting that this country would be justified to deny anyone those rights is as un-American as you can possibly be.