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Are we allowed to talk about Bitcoin?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    Blockchain isn't nonsense, even cryptocurrencies aren't nonsense. It is what people are doing with them that are nonsense.
     
    Buck likes this.
  2. Buck

    Buck Well-Known Member

    Interesting piece about starting a currency:
    How to Start Your Own Private Currency - The Atlantic

    So currency can and does become a commodity on its own, but that is something that has evolved over time, and it has origins in a time when currency was on a gold or other commodity standard.
    Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin have not gone through the same process, and many of the people who have attempted to dabble in speculating in that 'commodity' market seem to have little understanding of what it is they are undertaking.
    It is goofy.
    But, as mentioned, the behaviors around it are not problems inherent to blockchain or cryptocurrencies.
     
    justgladtobehere likes this.
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Since they began offering the futures late last year, I've dabbled a bit in it (and yes, I look at it as a commodity or an asset, not as a currency. ... although anything can be a currency if you can get widespread acceptance of it).

    The great thing about the futures markets are that the products are highly leveraged. It's also the thing that wipes out 95 percent of people who mess with futures. There are two futures contracts for bitcoin: /xbt, which is offered by CBOT (the Chicago Board of Trade) and /btc which is offered by the CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange).

    /btc is the more leveraged of the two, and the more widely traded. /xbt is basically a one for one proposition. Each contract is for one bitcoin (although you need just a fraction of the price of a bitcoin to trade each contract). Each /btc contract is for 5 bitcoins. Both of the bitcoin contracts are much less leveraged that many other futures contracts, mostly because the exchanges were afraid that it was going to attract dumb money that doesn't understand leverage, and they'd have a mess on their hands. And it has to an extent.

    You can trade each of the contracts with just a fraction of their notional value. For example, let's say you are trading /btc (the more active of the two contracts) and the price of bitcoin is 6500 (around what it is right now). The notional value one futures contract is $32,500. But the margin required (working off the top of my head, so I may be a bit off) is only 40 percent of that -- so all you need is between $10,000 and $15,000 per contract to effectively speculate on the prices of 5 bitcoins. That creates a ton of opportunity. .. It also sets up conditions by which if there is a huge price move, you can get wiped out quickly. I think a lot of that money has been flushed from the market over the past few months.

    I have traded /btc quite a bit since it was introduced late year. It's not the focus of what I do, but it has been too tasty to resist. It's relatively thinly traded compared to the actual currency futures, which creates a set of challenges. But near as I can tell you have a bifurcated market of people who have no clue what they are doing (and don't understand how dangerous leverage can be). ... and smart money, which has been feasting on those futures. There has been some very serious up/down momentum as the price of bitcoin ran up and then got hammered back down. I am not a momentum trader (for the most part). So that isn't something I am interested in. But within those moves, it has mostly followed a very predictable swing trading pattern -- until recently, at least. And that has worked very well for me. I think it has mostly been because the smart money in that market was toying with the inexperienced players who can't recognize those tried-and-true traps. All markets function that way to an extent. But in its early life, bitcoin has followed a particularly regular pattern of moves over a 2 to 3 day stretch, designed to suck in people (while the smart money is exiting and reversing their trades just as the last person chasing is getting in).
     
  4. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    This was interesting, and even moreso when they mentioned the 4% tax rate so it's easy to see why the natives are wary.


     
  5. Stoney

    Stoney Well-Known Member

    YankeeFan likes this.
  6. lakefront

    lakefront Well-Known Member

  7. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

  8. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

  9. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    Quite a bit has happened in crypto, particularly Bitcoin, since this fell off the front page.

    I missed out on the massive surge at the end of last year, but got in after it pulled back from the $40K+ high. I started out very small, just enough to get some skin in the game to keep my interest and force myself to read and learn.

    Been steadily adding to my crypto wallet since. It’s fascinating stuff.

    Has anyone else gotten in?
     
  10. TheSportsPredictor

    TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

    Was 541 when this thread started.

    About doubled by January, back down to 444 by March 2014. Took til end of 2016 for it to get back to almost 1K.

    Explosion happened in 2017 when it went from 995 to start the year all the way to 13,850 by the end of the year.

    Crashed to about half that by April 2018 and half again by November 2018. Then another explosion last year.
     
  11. TheSportsPredictor

    TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

  12. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I know. I posted it two years ago.
     
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