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Bank CEO thinks journalist salaries are 'outrageous'

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by MisterCreosote, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Baron, I always find those kinds of characterizations more emotion than fact. Americans, in fact, are living better than ever. Our standard of living has gone way up, not down -- across all income classes. The facts, don't bear out the rhetoric we hear from politicians trolling for votes from the 99 percent being turned against this mythical 1 percent that is supposedly the cause of every problem everyone has ever had.

    I linked to this once on here. It's something Don Boudreaux did at Cafe Hayek. Here is the link: http://cafehayek.com/2011/07/stagnating-middle-class.html

    It's hard to argue that Americans are not getting ahead. Look at his powerpoint presentation. The link for just the powerpoint presentation is: http://cafehayek.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Heres-a-PowerPoint-presentation-that-I-gave-as-part-of-a-lecture-that-I-delivered-earlier-today-at-Cato-University.1.ppt

    He went through a 1975 Sears catalogue and based on the prices showed how much the primitive items cost in today's dollars, and many hours the typical person had to work to get the items. He then compared it to much more technologically advanced items today for which the typical person works much fewer hours

    For example, $749.95 ( or in today's dollars, $3,103.97. ... i.e. 154 work hours for the typical person) got you the Sears color TV in 1975. Today, $239 or 12.6 work hours for the typical person, gets you a much more technologically advanced 32-inch 720P hi-res TV.

    Check out the alarm clocks. In today's dollars, the AM-FM digital alarm clock from 1975 cost $246 or 12.2 work hours. A more modern version at Amazon.com today costs $11 or 35 minutes of work for the typical person.

    A laptop computer (the Macbook Air is the one he uses)? Forget about it in 1975. But for the same price in today's dollars (or a similar number of work hours) you could get a cartridge-loading electric typewriter.

    When you see it that visually, I don't know how anyone argues that middle class Americans are doing worse than they used to. Our standards of living have clearly jumped to an extraordinary degree. It's an emotional argument not based on reality.
     
  2. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Ragu, just because technology makes certain aspects of life easier doesn't necessarily make it so for everyone.

    Take newspaper reporters, for example. They used to have to write one, maybe two stories a day. In the old days, they wrote it out by hand. Then they got typewriters.

    Now they have computers, and mobile devices, and not only do they have to write one or two, or in many cases three stories a day, they have to blog. And tweet. And shoot photos. And shoot video. And write three updates for the website.

    So, at the end of the night, when the reporter goes home, they get to fall asleep in front of their cheaper TV because they did the job of three people. All thanks to technology.
     
  3. lcjjdnh

    lcjjdnh Well-Known Member

    Nor do material goods necessarily correlate with happiness (which leads to a related point that GDP is a poor measure of well-being). Further, the middle class has been screwed by the way housing has turned into a positional good--not because people want to show off their dicks with their McMansions, but because the constant battle for what are now geographically based service like "good" schools has inflated prices (all because the elites don't really want an equal opportunity system--they want one in which their kids can't fail, which is sort of antithetical to social mobility).
     
  4. dixiehack

    dixiehack Well-Known Member

    Know what else the sainted Jamie Dimon had happen on his watch? His bank bribed a handful of politicians to get inflated fees on swap deals that no municiple issuer had any business touching, driving the main county of my metropolitan area into bankruptcy.

    http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-10-23/wall_street/30312613_1_jefferson-county-sewer-rates-financial-firms

    Wonder how much bonus Mr. Dimon got from that? Of course it got pointed out by a bunch of haters in the media, who by his reckoning should be in a bread line.

    I was raised in the age of Jake Butcher, and was taught that every banker was a theiving son of a bitch to never be trusted. America could do worse than return to that lesson.
     
  5. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    If a company's value drops so much that your stake in it is worth less than what you loaned, it's a bad decision.

    And if, as the junior creditors and bondholders claim, you KNEW the deal would make the company insolvent, you improperly withheld evidence that accurately reflected the solvency of the company, and you KNEW that as a senior secured creditor your interests were safe . . . that makes you a criminal. Or it should. In the USA it makes you a billionaire.


    I do, however, agree 100 percent that the idea that we "aren't keeping up" with previous generations is utter bullshit. I grew up with two older brothers in an 850-square-foot house that, when I was 14, we were able to add two rooms onto to make it 1300 sf. My dad saved I don't know how many years just to pay the $10,000 the addition cost.

    We believe that nonsense because we are wired to believe --- or advertisers and peers have convinced us --- that doing without ANYTHING we want is being deprived. So the person making $25K a year will still buy a late-model car and an iPhone and fork out $200 for Springsteen tickets under the excuse that, "Well, I deserve to have SOME enjoyment in my life!"

    As if there can be no enjoyment in life without such trivialities.
     
  6. Magic In The Night

    Magic In The Night Active Member

    This is really laughable. I got my pay cut 6.5% for part of 2010, 2011, 2012 and beyond. I did not get this because I did a worse job or am doing less work. In fact, I'm doing a better job and a lot more work because we have fewer people and more responsibilities. However, almost everything I need to pay for is going up in price: gas, rent, food, clothing, etc. Oh, and I have a 1991 TV that is not flat-screen. And I drive a 1999 car. So no, I'm really not doing better. I'm sure I'm hardly alone in this situation.
     
  7. YGBFKM

    YGBFKM Guest

    I find my experience to be the only one that matters.
     
  8. WriteThinking

    WriteThinking Well-Known Member

    Tell me again why Jamie Dimon cares what journalists' salaries are.

    And, tell me he would really even notice very much if (according to Ragu) his salary went from, what, $42 million in 2006, to "only" almost $21 million in 2010.

    Honestly, how can people have so much money? It really is almost inconceivable...especially to your average journalist.

    I hope he does something good -- preferably for others -- with a very substantial portion of that income.
     
  9. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Rich people are never philanthropic with their money.

    It would be far better for the government to take that wealth. They would spend it better.
     
  10. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    Pretty sure no one has advocated that.

    Again, Americans are largely OK with others' wealth when they feel that wealth has been fairly earned.
     
  11. J-School Blue

    J-School Blue Member

    The price of goods has gone dow partially due to more widely-available credit and cheap third-world labor. You can argue about the pros and cons of these things, but they're part of the equation. It's not all down to increased standard of living. Those things are so much parts of it that we can't comfortably divorce ourselves from them, but they aren't all good for us long term.

    A lot of these goods are also, frankly, pieces of junk. You bought an alarm clock in the 1970s and expected it to last forever. You buy it now and expect to get a year or three's use out of it, because it either breaks or is replaced by version 2.57 so the company can push more widgets.
     
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    1) Cheap third world labor existed in 1975. We didn't import as much then, but a lot of stuff was made in Korea and Japan. Being an importer didn't make the same sense in 1975, because without the ability to control distribution via computerized methods, and with costs of shipping much greater (yet another thing that we paid more for in 1975 than we do today, which has led to an increased standard of living today) importing goods was a much more complicated and expensive proposition. Cheap third world labor also doesn't just benefit us (by keeping inflation more in check than without it). It benefits those third world countries. The standard of living in China and India and Brazil has grown significantly over the last 15 to 20 years.

    2) Credit has nothing to do with the prices of goods and services relative to 1975. If I produce a widget, I get paid for it if I sell it. Whether you bought it on credit, or you paid cash, my costs are my costs and my profits are my profits. You can argue that many Americans live beyond their means due to the availability of credit. But that link I gave looked only at costs and the number of hours one would have to work to be able to purchase the various items. It didn't make a presumption of people borrowing money they can't afford to pay back to get those items. In fact, it did the opposite. It looked at what the average worker actually earns, and then showed what that average worker can buy now with his earnings relative to what he could buy in 1975 based on his earnings.
     
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