Baseball Thread Rated X -- Mature Audiences Only

I'm not feeling it on Hoffman. His stats (K/9 in particular) are more dominant than I initially believed, but I see him as a compiler and not someone who scared the wits out of people with the game on the line.

Call it east coast bias if you like, you might be right.

But if Lee Smith hasn't sniffed the Hall yet, why would Hoffman be a lock?

I agree with Buck: Goose should have been in years ago. I think he suffered from pitching for so many years after his prime in a middle relief/mop-up role. I think he gets in in 2008...which will also be the last year on the ballot for Jim Ed Rice, who would join Goose if he wasn't one of the biggest assholes to ever don a uniform. Alas, I think he'll fall just short. Too bad!

 

This column lead by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel's Mike Berardino says a lot about Hoffman:

There is no Hall of Fame for great teammates, but if there were Trevor Hoffman would be a charter member.

Those who have cycled through San Diego over the years continually rave about the Padres closer, and not just because he's about to pass Lee Smith (478) atop the career saves list.

"He's a great guy, a real family man," said Marlins catcher Miguel Olivo. "He's the same guy on the field and in the clubhouse."

Hoffman, 38, has long made a point of inviting younger players and new teammates to his home for dinner. But what really made an impression on Matt Herges was the impromptu catering service Hoff-man ran for his teammates while out with a shoulder injury in 2003.

When the team bus would arrive back at Qualcomm Stadium following each road trip, Hoffman would be there to greet the other Padres.

"He would have a full spread when we got off the bus -- Outback Steakhouse or P.F. Chang's," said Herges, now a Marlins reliever. "Right there, as we walked off the bus, he'd shake everybody's hand. `Hey, good road trip. Come get something to eat.' That was just out of his pocket. Nobody does that."

Herges was traded to the Giants in July 2003, but he still had enough time with Hoffman for the closer to make a lasting impression.

"He goes way above and beyond the norm," Herges said. "Even if he was the worst pitcher ever to pitch in the big leagues, he's still the top teammate that I've ever had."

For that reason, Hoffman's latest accomplishment will rank as one of the more celebrated achievements within the baseball community.

There may not be a more respected player in the game than the Padres closer, who has become a San Diego institution since the Marlins traded him in a package deal for Gary Sheffield and lefty Rich Rodriguez 13 years ago.

From a media perspective, Hoffman secured his reputation after Game 3 of the 1998 World Series, when he stood at his locker for more than 30 minutes patiently discussing the game-turning homer he allowed to Yankees third baseman Scott Brosius.

This July in Pittsburgh, after Hoffman blew the save to Michael Young and the American League All-Stars, the closer again stood at his locker, answering every last question from wave after wave of deadline-strained reporters.

Such classy gestures aren't forgotten.

Between the lines, Hoffman has earned praise as a converted shortstop that thrives despite a mid-80s fastball. He was closing in on his eighth season of 40 or more saves thanks to perhaps the finest changeup the game has ever seen.

What the cutter is to Mariano Rivera, the changeup is to Hoffman.

"I think singlehandedly he has made changeups cool," Herges says. "You can have a changeup as an out pitch. You don't have to throw 98 [mph]. You don't have to have a humongous Sandy Koufax curveball. You can strike people out with a changeup."

Hoffman's career save percentage was holding steady at .896, including 38 of 42 conversions this year. While some of it is no doubt due to Hells Bells -- still the best entrance for any closer -- the bigger factor by far is that changeup.

"He has just got an unbelievable ability to sell it," Herges said. "You sit on a changeup and he throws it and you're like, `I think that's a fastball,' and you change your mind and the next thing you know it's a changeup. That's how good it is. Everything is exactly the same. You can't pick it up until you're swinging and missing at it, pretty much."

Even Olivo, who spent the last two months of 2005 with the Padres, wasn't able to hold off on the change when he faced Hoffman this year.

"I knew it was coming and I still couldn't hit it," Olivo said. "I could catch it with my glove, but not with my bat."

 

Buster Olney wrote a really, really good piece in ESPN The Magazine about Hoffman. It might be linked on his page on ESPN.com, but it's probably premium.

I believe he's a great dude--Herges isn't the only one who still relies on his council even though they're no longer teammates--but I just don't think he's a HOFer.

 

Well, the save is ridiculously flawed.

Should be a two-run lead max to start an inning, or if the tying run is at the plate.

 

Because Lee Smith didn't dominate worth a damn.

Hoffman came up just shy of winning the 1998 Cy Young (and though I'm the biggest Glavine homer there is: in all objectivity, Trevor deserved that award much, much more) ... and I think it's your East Coast bias getting the better of you if you don't think he's been very dominant the last 10 years. ... He gets the Tony Gwynn treatment from the rest of the country because of where he plays -- "yeah, he's great and all, but he's just a glorified singles hitter" -- but everyone out here knows how dominant Hoffman is.

(I'm not using this as an argument, but if you've ever been to the Petsmart when "Hell's Bells" starts playing, you'll see how intimidating an experience that can be to the visiting team -- and that's just from the stands. ... There's no question that when Hoffman comes in the game, every team in the National League legitimately considers the game to be all but over. Same as Rivera in the AL.)

No one ever felt that way about Lee Smith. No one felt that way about John Franco (ESPECIALLY late in his career.) They were both saves "compilers."

Trevor was lights-out in the regular season. He was lights-out in the postseason. Now he's the all-time leader in saves. He's definitely a HOFer. No question whatsoever.

 

Cy Young to a closer is a travesty.

But I think Hoffman in Cooperstown is a formality, too.

 

Great story about Hoffman: Pitching for Nashville, he met his wife, Tracy, at a bar in Buffalo. She was a Bills cheerleader and a real-estate agent who wouldn't give him her last name or her number. Hoffman called his agent the next day and said, "You've got to find this woman for me. Her name is Tracy and she works in real estate."

He didn't know anything else about her. But the agent tracked her down, and Hoffman called her. She was so blown away that she agreed to go out with him. They've been together ever since. He proposed to her during Super Bowl 27, which might count as the Bills' highlight in their 52-17 loss to Dallas.

 

FWIW, Buck, I think anyone who fails to vote for Gwynn in the HOF is nuts.

And yeah, Hoffman's 1998 is on the short list of all-time great seasons by a closer. And it's not his fault he doesn't annually appear on the postseason stage. But to me, a HOF closer is someone who makes you feel the game is over when he enters. And if Hells Bells intimidates the opposing team, then trust me, Enter Sandman has other teams quaking in their boots [/exaggeration].

I'm sure Hells Bells is a very cool entrance song, but I am telling you, there is NOTHING in sports like the silent anticipagtion after Rivera throws his final warmup pitch...and walks down the bullpen steps...and takes that first step out of the bullpen as the first notes of "Enter Sandman" fill the air and Yankee Stadium goes certifiably insane. NOTHING like it. It is the coolest damn thing in baseball, and I'm not even a Yankees fan.

And Buck, sorry, but Hoffman has been anything but dominant in the postseason. It IS a small sample size, but he has a 3.75 ERA in 11 postseason games. He gave up two runs in 1 1/3 innings in 1996 and gave up a back-breaking two-run homer (to Scott Brosius, I believe) in his only World Series appearance. And don't forget the AL's late rally against him in this year's All-STar Game. BECAUSE IT COUNTS!!!!

Again: I'm not holding his postseason experience or lack thereof against him. But when it comes to closers, I believe only the most dominant of the dominant should be there. So for me, it's Rivera, Goose and Eck, in that order. I came around a little bit to Sutter this year, but I don't think I would have voted for him.

 

60 good innings isn't the best pitcher to me, ever.

Just the best pitcher not good/durable enough to start.

 

Lett me suggest that it perhaps wasn't THE highlight.

 

So if a reliever isn't worthy of the Cy Young, how can he be worthy of the top honor in sports--the HOF?

 

I only predicted that he would be admitted without question.

I am very against relief pitchers in the Hall, too.