Believing

I'm not judging at all. I don't think you're a bad guy. You seem intellectually curious and well spoken.

I'm just saying that beliefs close you off to genuine intellectual pursuit. If you believe something to be true, how hard can you really investigate it?

 

I argue that I believe in it because I've investigated it. I believe what I believe, but I continue to study all religions. Like I said, I find them fascinating. I wish more people felt that way. We've have more open discussions instead of people losing their minds whenver religion is brought up.
I'll grant you that some people accept a certain belief set and then close their minds to any other possibilities. I'm not one of those people.
Some people are athiest or agnostic because they have closed their minds -- often because of a bad experience with people from one faith or the other. That's a shame as well.

 

But they aren't your beliefs if they can change, right?

Perhaps we have trouble over how we're defining that word.

 

That's a fair question, but to me, beliefs can change -- at least mine can.
In fact, what I believe about God has changed a lot over the last 10 years. It will probably change more over the next 10.
My beliefs aren't set in stone, and I pity (there's that word again) anyone whose are.

 

and that's you being judgemental. maybe some people have become athiest or agnostic because they feel they opened their minds?

who are you to say who closed their minds?

 

And that's you again reading a lot more into my words than I wrote. I said that some peoeple don't believe in God because they closed their minds. I didn't say all.
Go back and see my post about my agnostic stepfather.

 

okie, my bad. reread, and you said some people.

i hope you forgive me for that.

 

Does a circle have a beginning and an end? My guess is that creation repeats on an infinite loop. The material for the Big Bang came from the rebound of the Big Crunch, when the universe which existed before this one collapsed upon itself in a supermassive black hole.

Now I'm probably wrong about that, but it's as good a guess as saying something called God caused the Big Bang. And it's a better guess than attempting to use our imaginations and "feelings" to describe this God as we would like him to be, such as claiming that he lives on Mount Olympus here on this planet, or gave commandments to Moses and Mohammed, or fathered a human son, or cares about you personally.

 

Now there's an honest answer.
However, even if things were in a loop, doesn't it have to begin at some point? There had to be a first Big Bang, didn't there?

 

If time is truly infinite, there is no beginning and no end. But infinity is a difficult concept for us humans to grasp.

 

While there has been some comments that have gone in a bit of a different direction, I think that this has been a rather civil conversation. So that is good.

I just wanted to touch on a few points...

The money aspect is certainly different. However, while the Bible is certainly over 1,000 years old, it isn't 2,000. The New Testament wasn't written until much later after the death of Jesus.

So, while you have in one hand a book by a science fiction writer, the other hand holds a book written by people that never actually met Jesus just heard his tales. The same is for many religions that started oh so long ago.

Another factor that a lot of people should think about, but don't, is the actual time. Many people argue that "there must be something to this if it has lasted so long." Well, what about the reverse, is it not possible that we are holding onto dogma to simply have some hope for what occurs after death?

How could it be possible that individuals that thought the earth was flat, wheelbarrows would be the work of genious, flight can only be performed by birds, rain came from a god, a good medical procedure for dealing with epileptics was drilling a hole in their head so an evil spirit could fly out, etc.; how could individuals that were so far off base on basically everything scientific can be so stone cold dead on when it comes to religion?

To many people, the answer is simply "I don't know." It should well be understood that this is an acceptable answer.

"Honey, do you know where I put my keys?"
"I don't know. I wasn't there when you put them down."

Why, then, must it be assigned to something? As time progresses and we learn more and more about the universe we may come upon a point in time where we actually do know. At this point, our capacity and technology hasn't reached that level. It is okay to say, "We don't have a video camera crew roaming around our house which would have on film where I placed my keys."

Similarly, you point out that "everything" has a beginning and an end. So, where is God's beginning and ending? If you say God is around forever and doesn't have either, then why do you have different rules for the universe?

 

Why would being a Christian close anyone's mind? There are lots of Christians. Some naturally conservative and some very liberal.

I don't think the Jesuits are very close minded about things.