Benoit autopsy results are in

As usual spnited, you are right, especially about the No Fun League.

 

And our contracted athletes... Vince, rot in hell, bitch

 

Honestly, does he think than anyone believes this bullshit?

 

Do you really want to focus more attention on Astin when his records show he gave Benoit nearly a year's worth of 'roids every month for a year, a time period that included this "negative" test of April? Because unless Benoit was a steroid dealer, and there's enough mark doctors out there that I can't imagine he'd have to take on that role, then that's a pretty damning piece of evidence that they're not exactly debunking.

 

I'm still hearing lots of rumors about a private detective being hired by Chris to keep a close eye on Nancy and then informing Chris of some extramarital activities, leading to Chris returning home to confront Nancy before all hell broke loose.
If that's the case, there's a private detective and an "other man" out there in hiding.
If that's the case ...

 

You are right; pro wrestling shouldn't be shut down. But since the biggest organization is also the worst abuser, that sort of goes hand in hand. What would you suggest: jail Vince McMahon, but let his family run it?

 

I was going to reply to Spnited's post, but when I saw that boots was agreeing with him, well, I figured that's all I needed to make my point.

 

Yeah, Slappy ... I've been trying to think of an answer and really, there's no simple solution to this mess. The only people that can really tell McMahon how to run his business are the fans. They have to make it clear that they don't find the big muscleheads all that entertaining (like myself). As a fan of pro wrestling, I've seen a lot of the federations and the most entertaining shy away from the muscleheads and focus more on smaller athletes and athletic moves in the ring.
I think I'd like to see some sort of regulation because, even though the matches are predetermined, the athleticism (for the most part) is real and these athletes deserve to have their health protected. I know that the California State Athletic Commission has offered to to monitor the business when it's in California, but there's a process that needs to be gone through in order for that to happen.
Trusting Vince McMahon to make the necessary changes to his business (when he's made millions and millions running it a certain way) is foolhearty.

And Spnited, you can call me a slime all you want because I am entertained by some of the pro wrestling federations out there (honestly, WWE is far from being my favorite). But, I think close-minded people who stereotype and generalize, like you, are wasting the brain God gave them.

 

Obviously by my many many posts on the rasslin thread, I completely disagree with the "all wrestling fans are cretins" argument.

That said, to spnited, McMahon and WWE IS wrestling. He doesn't know about TNA, ROH and PWG. They're not even on his radar

To the mainstream Joe, McMahon and his company are wrestling as a whole.

I think the problems are fixable, but the answers are going to have to come from within. I also don't believe you can legislate something related to pro wrestling. It is entertainment, not sport, and it would open up a legal can of worms that I'm sure Vinnie Mac's attorneys would eagerly exploit in their counter arguments.

The ONLY way things are going to change is if the advertisers/networks where WWE is aired pull out or threaten to pull out.

 

It's interesting to note that 10, 15 years ago, people thought wrestling was not only staged, but absolutely phony. Nobody really hit each other, they stomped their foot when they threw punches, that's really blood, not ketchup, and so on. Now we're talking about the issues with workload, injuries and the resulting painkiller addictions. People may not respect wrestling any more than they did in 1985, but at least now their reasons are more legitimate.

And it should go without saying that WWE's letter is total garbage. They're still not talking about the massive amounts of steroids prescribed to Benoit while in the timeframe that includes his alleged negative test in April. They're still not even peripherially discussing the culture problems in wrestling, the drugs, the workload, the injuries and coming back from them too soon, and the willingness to promote superhuman freaks to the moon because of how stacked they are. Some of those issues they're not going to discuss right away (hell, they're busy giving Bobby Lashley an extended push), but at some point someone there needs to say something, or eventually it's going to bite them.

 

Well, that sounds like a rumor worth spreading.

You aren't saying that would justify anything Benoit did, right?

 

Oh man,

Alright, I hate to inject some sanity into this debate (particularly when it's being waged by many with little testosterone in their system (including many of the guys - lol), yet they speak with such authority - brilliant!).

Ok, there is no "normal" level for Test/Epi. Just like there is no normal blood type or normal IQ or normal hair color, etc. There is a generally normal range. That is why IOC testing always allowed up to a range of 6-1 for many many years. After all, it stood to reason that many of the world's best athletes had higher normal levels of hormones then most and allow for non-drug induced normal variance among athletes.

When many athletes began abusing this quasi-loophole by supplementing Test up to the 6-1 range (see Carolina Pathers et al) then the level was lowered to 4-1.

Now, as to the "main point" of was this or was this not "roid rage" & many in the media's insistence (desire) that it is (as it is so much sexier that way and sells far more papers, etc.).

We don't know and frankly at this point is starting to look doubtful (albeit still possible).

Why?

1.) The much hyped 10 TIMES NORMAL LEVELS! is actually not that much compared to many athletes taking steroids. It may sound like it is, but it isn't. I have heard of levels MUCH MUCH greater than that by guys with no incidents.

2.) Test alone typically doesn't make you flip out (complicated discussion). Sure it can but other steroids are often more known for that.

3.) He was using other drugs that could have had a mitigating (Xanax) effect or vice versa (Can't know if Alcohol content is from ingestion or decomposition).

4.) Yes, technically straight Test IS a steroid, but so is cortisone. So are a lot of things. Uh, you need em to live right. Does calling it a steroid now make it evil? Are we trying to make manhood evil? Somedays I wonder.

However, labeling it a steroid is a bit misleading in that straight Test is not the chemically altered drugs that are designed for muscle building, Muscular Dystrophy treatment, Aids treatment, burn treatments, malnourishment treatments. Those drugs are often designed to give greater effects with less side effects (although their are hundreds of steroids and their individual effects vary widely).

However, it is accurate to finger Test as causing roid rage as it can being that it carries the male sex characteristics that trigger that.

Again, this is complicated but when you boil it all down given the personality of Benoit, timing & deliberation of killings, other drugs involved that "roid rage" is probably the least likely result. Certainly it is possible that the Test did cause Benoit roid rage which started events rolling, but unlikely. First off it is almost certain he had taken much higher doses previously of a range of steroids and obviously handled them without serious incidents. Also remember that Test levels could have been high if he just gave himself a shot that diminish over time to varying degrees depending on the specific Test compound as designed. Thus, it is possible that he was following a normal Test replacement protocol.

If these murders were drug related alcohol, antidepressants, and amphetamines are MUCH MUCH more plausible culprits.

You don't need roids to snap. How many dudes who go postal are juiced?

How many suicide bombers are juiced?

Look I am against drugs but I am also against lynch mobs and stupidity.

People need to take some time & educate themselves before spouting off the PC/conventional wisdom lines - seriously.

My money is on a normal domestic dispute coupled with a guy that is maybe a bit of a perfectionist & perhaps a little too consumed with power & control. When those kind of ppl snap bad things happen. I don't see steroids as a critical factor in this - I just don't. That doesn't mean the WWE (and a ton of other sports) may have a drug problem that needs to be addressed, but it is a separate issue.

John