Bonafide Baseball Hall of Famers

OK, but it was a different era. Those are probably pretty comparable.

 

Yeah, but era/park/etc adjusted to the league average, they're basically identical: Steib's ERA+ is 122 and Buehrle's is 123.

EDIT: Guy beat me to it.

 

That last part is not accurate. Maddux won the last of his four Cy Young awards in 1995. Martinez did not win his first until 1997 and he did not leave the National League until 1998.

Maddux finished with four Cy Young awards, 355 victories, a 3.16 ERA and 3,371 strikeouts. Glavine has one Cy Young award, 305 victories, a 3.54 ERA and 2,607 strikeouts. They are both Hall of Famers, but the gap between them is not insignificant.

 

Thoughts on Todd Helton as a Hall of Fame candidate? Upfront, I am a Rockies fan, but my feelings lean toward him as a borderline HOF. Seems likely to be the first true Rockies player with a shot of getting in. Larry Walker, to me anyway, is another borderline guy. Both have made a World Series, even if both lost to the Red Sox.

 

Not meaning to take anything away from the no-hitter or perfect game. I just don't think it's enough to get him in. When I think of Buehrle, I think of a guy capable of dominating, but not necessarily a guy who is/was dominant.

 

Barring something unforeseen in the future, Buehrle doesn't even come close. Doesn't mean he's not a great pitcher, but he'd need about 100 more wins to even be considered.

 

Todd Helton, at home: .361 BA / .458 OBP / .648 SLG / 197 HR / 704 RBI
Todd Helton, on the road: .295 BA / .395 OBP / .494 SLG / 124 HR / 472 RBI

Now, he is an excellent player. But playing his prime in Colorado before they started freezing the baseballs or whatever made an enormous difference -- more than 200 OPS points. Away from Coors, he's basically Will Clark.

 

Buehrle is collecting the individual bulletpoints to make him a candidate once he starts reaching those career milestones. But you can't seriously talk about him as a HOF candidate until he gets to at least 200 wins (and for him, that's still four years away, minumum). But once he crosses that threshold, those who want to argue his chances can point to winning a World Series ring and a perfect game and a no-hitter.

As for some other comments: I think Helton is a borderline candidate because of his home park. Right or wrong, it will obviously play a major factor in whether he gets in or not.

Pujols isn't in yet.....only because he's not eligible. Once we get past next year's Opening Day, he's officially a lock.

And with the steroid cloud the way it is, bonafide Hall of Famer takes on a whole new meaning for guys like Manny and A-Rod.

 

should've looked that up before. i thought martinez was better his first couple years with
montreal. the gap between maddux and glavine is not significant but maddux is better.
both are locks, glavine became a lock when he won 300, although he probably would've
been in anyway. Martinez also is a lock. the AL vs. NL does make a difference. if a purist wants
to say the NL is better because that's the way it's supposed to be that's fine. but the AL
is tougher on a pitcher because facing a DH is tougher than facing a pitcher. Just look at
Martinez's ERA his first year with the Mets. Boston knew he was on the downside of his career
and he lowered his ERA by about a run in 05. by 06 he lost even more and his shoulder was pretty much shot.

 

Regarding Maddux and Glavine, three Cy Young awards, 50 victories, more than a third of a point in ERA and 764 strikeouts are significant. Glavine became a lock when he won 300 games. Maddux was one long before reaching that milestone.

By the way, when Glavine won his Cy Young award in 1998, his ERA was half a run lower than Martinez's. I think that is enough to balance the difference between leagues (that was Pedro's first year in Boston). They were comparable pitchers that season.

 

No chance for Helton. Very good player but probably will end up with less than 450 career HRs and in this era that's not enough. his career avg is 360 home and 296 away. had to look that up, i would've thought 340-310. i would think Walker has a better chance because he was real good when he was on Montreal. he also was a good fielder with a good arm. if he wasn't hurt so much he probably would've reached some milestones that could get him in.

 

I think Helton is a borderline case, but he's a far better candidate than Walker.