Bonds begins HOF campaign

i looked up what year carew moved to 1B (1977) because of what you wrote, and damn, i forgot just how good he was.

 

Drip I would put Bagwell above most but not all of the guys you named.

 

We can de bate the PED issue forever. I think there are plenty of players even now (Matt Kemp for one) who might be on the stuff. It's hard to prove either way unless someone fails a test. But they have ways of defeating tests, too.

 

This is the shit that absolutely drives me insane. There is no reason to link Kemp to PED use. None. You just tossed that out there for the hell of it.

 

The problem Bagwell faces is the same one that guys like Ferguson Jenkins and Santo faced; were they just very good or great but never given their due because they were playing for so-so teams that never won a championship?

Bagwell was damn good, but IMHO he never dominated a period, like say even Dale Murphy did. I'll say the same thing about Biggio.

 

It boggles my mind that people can claim that "The Babe" was an all-time great when he didn't have to face blacks and Hispanics. I would have loved to see The Babe try to get around on an Aroldis Chapman fastball.

 

It boggles my mind that anyone can claim "The Babe" wasn't an all-time great with a straight face.

Yes, conditions were very different then. Yes, the game was segregated and the talent pool was much smaller. Yes, human athletic performance in all sports has improved greatly in the ensuing century.

Would Babe Ruth have a 200 OPS+ in today's game? Of course not.

Would he still be a Hall of Famer? Absolutely.

 

Walter Johnson was known to throw quite hard.

But you're right. Chapman has allowed five home runs (in 117 IP). I am sure all five of those players are better than Babe Ruth.

 

Can I borrow your time machine when you're not using it?

Pro athletes who played before racial integration should be diminished way more than PED abusers because they didn't play against all of the elite players of their generation. It's difficult to measure how much PEDs helped Barry Bonds, but it's pretty bloody obvious that Babe Ruth's numbers would have gone way down if he had to face the top Negro League pitchers of his era.

 

You said The Babe would not have been "an all-time great." It's pretty likely that he would have been one of the top players -- he was the top current player and in all likelihood tops even in the expanded pool. Maybe Josh Gibson, I don't know, but I doubt there would have been many better players.

 

No I didn't OOP. Go to google and type Matt Kemp steroids. There's plenty of chatter about it.

 

if it's that fucking obvious, why don't you, you know, attempt to prove your point?
how about throwing out 10 pitchers that would have shut ruth down, lights out.